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The human form evolved to run long distances in wide open fields, climb trees for nutrient and protection, and create and wield tools. We have built the world t

by yardie 1y ago

The human form evolved to run long distances in wide open fields, climb trees for nutrient and protection, and create and wield tools. We have built the world to accommodate for that around us. It is not a general purpose form factor. An urbanized, general purpose robot may take an entirely different form factor than bipedal homosapien, ie. tachikomas from Ghost in the Shell: SAC.

ACCount37 1y ago
Will a tachikoma fit through a door? If not, that's a bad "general purpose" platform. A true "general purpose" robot should be able to walk into a space built by humans for humans and perform useful work there. That's the reason why humanoid frames are desirable.
- yardie 1y ago
  A tachikoma is not the general purpose vehicle. It is an example of what a general purpose robot body could look like. It's job, in an anime, is a super intelligent armored tank. Humans evolved to be bipedal to see over the bushes and tall grass in the savannah. Maybe the optimal form for a robot is an elephant with prehensile trunk, or giraffe, or a frog.
- bluGill 1y ago
  To some extent I'm willing to remodel if needed so the robot can fit. When I build/remodel my own house I only use extra wide doors so that a wheelchair can fit - I've never had someone in a wheelchair visit, but that is still something I make a requirement: does this help your robot work?
  - ACCount37 1y ago
    Maybe you are. But is the entire world willing to remodel? For the first generation of general purpose robots, which will, without a doubt, suck? Chicken and egg problem there. Nobody will adapt the environment for your robots unless your robots have proven to work really well. So your robots have to first work really well in unadapted environments.
    - bluGill 1y ago
      That depends on how much is needed. I've lived in houses with doors I need to turn sideways to get through (and I'm a wide guy - I expect fat people couldn't fit in any direction. I've lived in houses where all doors are bit enough for a wheelchair. Most houses have a range of sizes - what is your requirements. Some things are "easy" to do, and some are a major tear down. Without knowing the exact size requirements of a real robot we can't have this discussion. Though If you are in the business I expect you to look at houses and try to come up with something reasonable unless there is a good reason you can't. There are always first adopters who will if it isn't too expensive. Rich people often live in a house with big enough doors (well most doors big enough - enough for this discussion to say they do), and likely have a need (and the money) for something even if it isn't very good. If your robot starts to prove useful people will ask for it - we build thousands of new houses/apartments every year just in the US, if builders see a demand they will make changes to their new models - it doesn't cost that much more so they don't even need a real demand, just a marketing feature that you could even if nobody does will work (for a few years: you better prove it useful to those who buy new houses fast or the fad will pass!) It isn't easy because as you say, chicken and egg. If these prove useful people will make changes of the next few decades so they can have one. (though of course your competition will be looking to see if they can make something that doesn't need a remodel to use)
Hamuko 1y ago
I think a tachikoma will have a hard time climbing up the stairway in an apartment building.
- yardie 1y ago
  When they aren't doing high speed chases through the streets of Japan they are jumping out of helicopters, climbing walls, and chasing suspects up stairs.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]

by yardie 1y ago

ACCount37 1y ago

Will a tachikoma fit through a door? If not, that's a bad "general purpose" platform. A true "general purpose" robot should be able to walk into a space built by humans for humans and perform useful work there. That's the reason why humanoid frames are desirable.

yardie 1y ago
A tachikoma is not the general purpose vehicle. It is an example of what a general purpose robot body could look like. It's job, in an anime, is a super intelligent armored tank. Humans evolved to be bipedal to see over the bushes and tall grass in the savannah. Maybe the optimal form for a robot is an elephant with prehensile trunk, or giraffe, or a frog.
bluGill 1y ago
To some extent I'm willing to remodel if needed so the robot can fit. When I build/remodel my own house I only use extra wide doors so that a wheelchair can fit - I've never had someone in a wheelchair visit, but that is still something I make a requirement: does this help your robot work?
- ACCount37 1y ago
  Maybe you are. But is the entire world willing to remodel? For the first generation of general purpose robots, which will, without a doubt, suck? Chicken and egg problem there. Nobody will adapt the environment for your robots unless your robots have proven to work really well. So your robots have to first work really well in unadapted environments.
  - bluGill 1y ago
    That depends on how much is needed. I've lived in houses with doors I need to turn sideways to get through (and I'm a wide guy - I expect fat people couldn't fit in any direction. I've lived in houses where all doors are bit enough for a wheelchair. Most houses have a range of sizes - what is your requirements. Some things are "easy" to do, and some are a major tear down. Without knowing the exact size requirements of a real robot we can't have this discussion. Though If you are in the business I expect you to look at houses and try to come up with something reasonable unless there is a good reason you can't. There are always first adopters who will if it isn't too expensive. Rich people often live in a house with big enough doors (well most doors big enough - enough for this discussion to say they do), and likely have a need (and the money) for something even if it isn't very good. If your robot starts to prove useful people will ask for it - we build thousands of new houses/apartments every year just in the US, if builders see a demand they will make changes to their new models - it doesn't cost that much more so they don't even need a real demand, just a marketing feature that you could even if nobody does will work (for a few years: you better prove it useful to those who buy new houses fast or the fad will pass!) It isn't easy because as you say, chicken and egg. If these prove useful people will make changes of the next few decades so they can have one. (though of course your competition will be looking to see if they can make something that doesn't need a remodel to use)

Hamuko 1y ago

I think a tachikoma will have a hard time climbing up the stairway in an apartment building.

yardie 1y ago
When they aren't doing high speed chases through the streets of Japan they are jumping out of helicopters, climbing walls, and chasing suspects up stairs.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]