4 ms·

How about we just declare IPv4 addresses to be static as of ..yesterday. They are not unique of course, but at some level they are. Done. Solve a whole bunch of

How about we just declare IPv4 addresses to be static as of ..yesterday. They are not unique of course, but at some level they are. Done. Solve a whole bunch of heart ache.

typpilol 1y ago
Because there's markets where ip blocks sell for millions of dollars That's why your ISP doesn't do statics for free anymore
- adamcharnock 1y ago
  This just spurred me to check recent sales prices: https://auctions.ipv4.global/prior-sales https://auctions.ipv4.global/prior-sales Check the charts for price since 2020. It looks like IPv4-block prices almost tripled 2020-2021. Then seem to have been in gradual decline since then. I'm rather surprised.
  - hylaride 1y ago
    IPv6 is now pretty standard, especially on cellular networks and in Asia. There are still some ISP holdouts (including Bell Canada’s fiber networks which is apparently finally in beta-testing for consumer IPv6) and many corporate networks that are still ipv4 only, but because all the big CDNs and cloud vendors now support it, the demand for IPv4 has plateau’d.
- ta1243 1y ago
  An IP address costs $20-30 to buy. $1 a month would fund it in 2 years. Your ISP doesn't do statics, but not because of the cost.
  - adamcharnock 1y ago
    That is true now, but 4-5 years ago I was starting a small ISP and prices were almost triple that. $80-$100/address seemed somewhat common IIRC, and prices only seemed to be going up. So I can certainly see an ISP looking at that and making a plan for a future where IPs cost $200+ each. Since then prices have come down. I can only speculate that high prices caused a bunch of organisations to decide to sell their unused IP blocks. I suppose the question is: Does the market now have enough spare capacity to see us through to IPv6-only adoption at reasonable IP costs, or will we be seeing high prices again in 5+ years?
    - ta1243 1y ago
      Auction prices went as high as $60. That's $5/month for a year and that covers it. Of course prices have collapsed since then, and in real terms are back or below 2019 levels
    - BobbyTables2 1y ago
      I suspect this is a bit like crude oil pricing. As prices go up, previously impractical sources will satisfy demand just enough. In other words, I think we’ll be stuck in IPv4 price limbo for a very long time.
    - matips 1y ago
      I doubt we will see IPv6-only ISPs. Such provider will have to face complaints that some part of Internet is not working correctly. It can be written it in the offer, but for not technical people some services will be broken by ISP. It is core of problem with IPv6 adoption - from ISP perspective it do not solve any problem because they still needs solution for connecting to IPv4. Opposite way it works - if you have IPv4 there are bridges to IPv6.
      - cess11 1y ago
        It's not uncommon that 'security solutions' in commerce and the like just refuses traffic from IPv6. Sometimes I switch to a rather dirty IPv4 address to feel something when I bypass it that way.
      - ianburrell 1y ago
        There are IPv6 first ISPs. There are ways to do IPv4 from IPv6. MAT does IPv4 CGNAT over IPv6 with stateless gateways. 464XLAT is used by mobile ISPs but requires software on each device. It wouldn’t work for ISP, but there is NAT64 which works well for companies and networks that can control software. There is no way to go from IPv4 to IPv6.
    - dwood_dev 1y ago
      The solution is already here. ISPs roll out CGNAT for IPv4, but their networks are dual stack, so the client devices have real IPv6 connectivity as well as IPv4 through a NAT. It's not great, but for 99% of consumers, they can't tell the difference. The ISP only needs a small 28 or 29 allocation, and with that they serve tens to hundreds of thousands of clients.
- Ghoelian 1y ago
  My ISP (KPN) actually does still give out static ipv4 addresses by default. I don't think it's technically static, since they don't make any claims about that, but mine hasn't changed in the 2 years since I moved to this address.
- jonathantf2 1y ago
  Got my /29 on my DSL line for free :)

How about we just declare IPv4 addresses to be static as of ..yesterday. They are not unique of course, but at some level they are. Done. Solve a whole bunch of heart ache.

typpilol 1y ago

Because there's markets where ip blocks sell for millions of dollars That's why your ISP doesn't do statics for free anymore

adamcharnock 1y ago
This just spurred me to check recent sales prices: https://auctions.ipv4.global/prior-sales https://auctions.ipv4.global/prior-sales Check the charts for price since 2020. It looks like IPv4-block prices almost tripled 2020-2021. Then seem to have been in gradual decline since then. I'm rather surprised.
- hylaride 1y ago
  IPv6 is now pretty standard, especially on cellular networks and in Asia. There are still some ISP holdouts (including Bell Canada’s fiber networks which is apparently finally in beta-testing for consumer IPv6) and many corporate networks that are still ipv4 only, but because all the big CDNs and cloud vendors now support it, the demand for IPv4 has plateau’d.
ta1243 1y ago
An IP address costs $20-30 to buy. $1 a month would fund it in 2 years. Your ISP doesn't do statics, but not because of the cost.
- adamcharnock 1y ago
  That is true now, but 4-5 years ago I was starting a small ISP and prices were almost triple that. $80-$100/address seemed somewhat common IIRC, and prices only seemed to be going up. So I can certainly see an ISP looking at that and making a plan for a future where IPs cost $200+ each. Since then prices have come down. I can only speculate that high prices caused a bunch of organisations to decide to sell their unused IP blocks. I suppose the question is: Does the market now have enough spare capacity to see us through to IPv6-only adoption at reasonable IP costs, or will we be seeing high prices again in 5+ years?
  - ta1243 1y ago
    Auction prices went as high as $60. That's $5/month for a year and that covers it. Of course prices have collapsed since then, and in real terms are back or below 2019 levels
  - BobbyTables2 1y ago
    I suspect this is a bit like crude oil pricing. As prices go up, previously impractical sources will satisfy demand just enough. In other words, I think we’ll be stuck in IPv4 price limbo for a very long time.
  - matips 1y ago
    I doubt we will see IPv6-only ISPs. Such provider will have to face complaints that some part of Internet is not working correctly. It can be written it in the offer, but for not technical people some services will be broken by ISP. It is core of problem with IPv6 adoption - from ISP perspective it do not solve any problem because they still needs solution for connecting to IPv4. Opposite way it works - if you have IPv4 there are bridges to IPv6.
    - cess11 1y ago
      It's not uncommon that 'security solutions' in commerce and the like just refuses traffic from IPv6. Sometimes I switch to a rather dirty IPv4 address to feel something when I bypass it that way.
    - ianburrell 1y ago
      There are IPv6 first ISPs. There are ways to do IPv4 from IPv6. MAT does IPv4 CGNAT over IPv6 with stateless gateways. 464XLAT is used by mobile ISPs but requires software on each device. It wouldn’t work for ISP, but there is NAT64 which works well for companies and networks that can control software. There is no way to go from IPv4 to IPv6.
  - dwood_dev 1y ago
    The solution is already here. ISPs roll out CGNAT for IPv4, but their networks are dual stack, so the client devices have real IPv6 connectivity as well as IPv4 through a NAT. It's not great, but for 99% of consumers, they can't tell the difference. The ISP only needs a small 28 or 29 allocation, and with that they serve tens to hundreds of thousands of clients.
Ghoelian 1y ago
My ISP (KPN) actually does still give out static ipv4 addresses by default. I don't think it's technically static, since they don't make any claims about that, but mine hasn't changed in the 2 years since I moved to this address.
jonathantf2 1y ago
Got my /29 on my DSL line for free :)