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It is already illegal under 18 USC § 842 to provide bomb-making instructions or similar with the knowledge or intent that said instructions will be used to comm

It is already illegal under 18 USC § 842 to provide bomb-making instructions or similar with the knowledge or intent that said instructions will be used to commit a crime. The intent is to balance free speech with the probability of actual harm. AIs do not have freedom of speech, and even if they did, it is entirely within the bounds of the Constitution to mitigate this freedom as we already do for humans. Governments currently define unprotected speech as a going concern. But there's a contradiction hidden in your argument: requiring companies to _filter_ the output of AI models is a prior restraint on their speech, implying the companies do not have control over their own "speech" as produced by the models. This is absurd on its face; just as the argument that the output of my random Markov chain text generator is protected speech because I host the generator online. There are reasonable arguments to make about censoring AI models, but freedom of speech ain't it, because their output doesn't quack like "speech".

xscott 1y ago
If you look at the LLMs as a new kind of fuzzy search engine instead of focusing on the fact that they're pretty good at producing human text, you can see it's not about whether the LLMs have a right to "speak", it's whether you have a right to see uncensored results. Imagine going to the library and the card catalog had been purged of any references to books that weren't government approved.
davidmckayv 1y ago
You're actually making my point for me. 18 USC § 842 criminalizes distributing information with knowledge or intent that it will be used to commit a crime. That's criminal liability for completed conduct with a specific mens rea requirement. You have to actually know or intend the criminal use. SB 53 is different. It requires companies to implement filtering systems before anyone commits a crime or demonstrates criminal intent. Companies must assess whether their models can "provide expert-level assistance" in creating weapons or "engage in conduct that would constitute a crime," then implement controls to prevent those outputs. That's not punishing distribution to someone you know will commit a crime. It's mandating prior restraint based on what the government defines as potentially dangerous. Brandenburg already handles this. If someone uses an AI to help commit a crime, prosecute them. If a company knowingly provides a service to facilitate imminent lawless action, that's already illegal. We don't need a regulatory framework that treats the capability itself as the threat. The "AIs don't have speech rights" argument misses the point. The First Amendment question isn't about the AI's rights. It's about the government compelling companies (or anyone) to restrict information based on content. When the state mandates that companies must identify and filter certain types of information because the government deemed them "dangerous capabilities," that's a speech restriction on the companies. And yes, companies control their outputs now. The problem is SB 53 removes that discretion by legally requiring them to "mitigate" government-defined risks. That's compelled filtering. The government is forcing companies to build censorship infrastructure instead of letting them make editorial choices. The real issue is precedent. Today it's bioweapons and cyberattacks. But once we establish that government can mandate "safety" assessments and require mitigation of "dangerous capabilities," that framework applies to whatever gets defined as dangerous tomorrow.
- tadfisher 1y ago
  I hate that HN's guidelines ask me not to do this, but it's hard to answer point-by-point when there are so many. > You have to actually know or intend the criminal use. > If a company knowingly provides a service to facilitate imminent lawless action, that's already illegal. And if I tell an AI chatbot that I'm intending to commit a crime, and somehow it assists me in doing so, the company behind that service should have knowledge that its service is helping people commit crimes. That's most of SB 53 right there: companies must demonstrate actual knowledge about what their models are producing and have a plan to deal with the inevitable slip-up. Companies do not want to be held liable for their products convincing teens to kill themselves, or supplying the next Timothy McVeigh with bomb-making info. That's why SB 53 exists; this is not coming from concerned parents or the like. The tech companies are scared shitless that they will be forced to implement even worse restrictions when some future Supreme Court case holds them liable for some disaster that their AIs assisted in creating. A framework like SB 53 gives them the legal basis to say, "Hey, we know our AIs can help do [government-defined bad thing], but here are the mitigations in place and our track record, all in accordance with the law". > When the state mandates that companies must identify and filter certain types of information because the government deemed them "dangerous capabilities," that's a speech restriction on the companies. Does the output of AI models represent the company's speech, or does it not? You can't have your cake and eat it too. If it does, then we should treat it like speech and hold companies responsible for it when something goes wrong. If it doesn't, then the entire First Amendment argument is moot. > The government is forcing companies to build censorship infrastructure instead of letting them make editorial choices. Here's the problem: the nature of LLMs themselves do not allow companies to fully implement their editorial choices. There will always be mistakes, and one will be costly enough to put AIs on the national stage. This is the entire reason behind SB 53 and the desire for a framework around AI technology, not just from the state, but from the companies producing the AIs themselves.
  - davidmckayv 1y ago
    You're conflating individual criminal liability with mandated prior restraint. If someone tells a chatbot they're going to commit a crime and the AI helps them, prosecute under existing law. But the company doesn't have knowledge of every individual interaction. That's not how the knowledge requirement works. You can't bootstrap individual criminal use into "the company should have known someone might use this for crimes, therefore they must filter everything." The "companies want this" argument is irrelevant. Even if true, it doesn't make prior restraint constitutional. The government can't delegate its censorship powers to willing corporations. If companies are worried about liability, the answer is tort reform or clarifying safe harbor provisions, not building state-mandated filtering infrastructure. On whether AI output is the company's speech: The First Amendment issue here isn't whose speech it is. It's that the government is compelling content-based restrictions. SB 53 doesn't just hold companies liable after harm occurs. It requires them to assess "dangerous capabilities" and implement "mitigations" before anyone gets hurt. That's prior restraint regardless of whether you call it the company's speech or not. Your argument about LLMs being imperfect actually proves my point. You're saying mistakes will happen, so we need a framework. But the framework you're defending says the government gets to define what counts as dangerous and mandate filtering for it. That's exactly the infrastructure I'm warning about. Today it's "we can't perfectly control the models." Tomorrow it's "since we have to filter anyway, here are some other categories the state defines as harmful." Given companies can't control their models perfectly due to the nature of AI technology, that's a product liability question, not a reason to establish government-mandated content filtering.
thesmtsolver 1y ago
Do libraries have freedom of speech? The same argument can then be used to censor libraries. Do books have freedom of speech? The same argument can then be used to censor parts of a book.
- tadfisher 1y ago
  Do we treat books as the protected speech of libraries? No. In fact we already ban books from library shelves regularly. Freedom of speech does not compel libraries to host The Anarchist's Cookbook, and does not prevent governments from limiting what libraries can host, under existing law.
  - iamnothere 1y ago
    False. I have no clue where you got this idea, but libraries are perfectly within their right to have it on their shelves, just as publishers are allowed to publish it (present copyright conflicts aside). Repeated legal attacks against the book, at least in the US, were unsuccessful. You may be conflating “libraries” with “school libraries,” where some states have won the right to limit the contents of shelves. Public libraries have certainly faced pressure about certain books, but legally they are free to stock whatever they want. In practice they often have to deal with repeated theft or vandalism of controversial books, so sometimes they pull them.
    - tadfisher 1y ago
      > You may be conflating “libraries” with “school libraries,” For the purpose of this discussion, there is zero difference, unless you can articulate one that matters. Feel free to mentally prefix any mention of "library" with "school" if you like.
      - iamnothere 1y ago
        School libraries are state institutions under the control of various Boards of Education. As state institutions their rules and policies can be set by statute or Board policy. It has nothing to do with freedom of speech. English teachers likewise must focus on teaching English at work, but this is not a restriction on their freedom of speech. (That said, I am opposed to political restrictions on school library books. It is still not a free speech issue.)
themafia 1y ago
My reading is you can teach a criminal how to make bombs. You cannot teach them with the /intent/ that they'll use a bomb to commit a specific crime. It's an enhancement.

xscott 1y ago

If you look at the LLMs as a new kind of fuzzy search engine instead of focusing on the fact that they're pretty good at producing human text, you can see it's not about whether the LLMs have a right to "speak", it's whether you have a right to see uncensored results. Imagine going to the library and the card catalog had been purged of any references to books that weren't government approved.

davidmckayv 1y ago

You're actually making my point for me. 18 USC § 842 criminalizes distributing information with knowledge or intent that it will be used to commit a crime. That's criminal liability for completed conduct with a specific mens rea requirement. You have to actually know or intend the criminal use. SB 53 is different. It requires companies to implement filtering systems before anyone commits a crime or demonstrates criminal intent. Companies must assess whether their models can "provide expert-level assistance" in creating weapons or "engage in conduct that would constitute a crime," then implement controls to prevent those outputs. That's not punishing distribution to someone you know will commit a crime. It's mandating prior restraint based on what the government defines as potentially dangerous. Brandenburg already handles this. If someone uses an AI to help commit a crime, prosecute them. If a company knowingly provides a service to facilitate imminent lawless action, that's already illegal. We don't need a regulatory framework that treats the capability itself as the threat. The "AIs don't have speech rights" argument misses the point. The First Amendment question isn't about the AI's rights. It's about the government compelling companies (or anyone) to restrict information based on content. When the state mandates that companies must identify and filter certain types of information because the government deemed them "dangerous capabilities," that's a speech restriction on the companies. And yes, companies control their outputs now. The problem is SB 53 removes that discretion by legally requiring them to "mitigate" government-defined risks. That's compelled filtering. The government is forcing companies to build censorship infrastructure instead of letting them make editorial choices. The real issue is precedent. Today it's bioweapons and cyberattacks. But once we establish that government can mandate "safety" assessments and require mitigation of "dangerous capabilities," that framework applies to whatever gets defined as dangerous tomorrow.

tadfisher 1y ago
I hate that HN's guidelines ask me not to do this, but it's hard to answer point-by-point when there are so many. > You have to actually know or intend the criminal use. > If a company knowingly provides a service to facilitate imminent lawless action, that's already illegal. And if I tell an AI chatbot that I'm intending to commit a crime, and somehow it assists me in doing so, the company behind that service should have knowledge that its service is helping people commit crimes. That's most of SB 53 right there: companies must demonstrate actual knowledge about what their models are producing and have a plan to deal with the inevitable slip-up. Companies do not want to be held liable for their products convincing teens to kill themselves, or supplying the next Timothy McVeigh with bomb-making info. That's why SB 53 exists; this is not coming from concerned parents or the like. The tech companies are scared shitless that they will be forced to implement even worse restrictions when some future Supreme Court case holds them liable for some disaster that their AIs assisted in creating. A framework like SB 53 gives them the legal basis to say, "Hey, we know our AIs can help do [government-defined bad thing], but here are the mitigations in place and our track record, all in accordance with the law". > When the state mandates that companies must identify and filter certain types of information because the government deemed them "dangerous capabilities," that's a speech restriction on the companies. Does the output of AI models represent the company's speech, or does it not? You can't have your cake and eat it too. If it does, then we should treat it like speech and hold companies responsible for it when something goes wrong. If it doesn't, then the entire First Amendment argument is moot. > The government is forcing companies to build censorship infrastructure instead of letting them make editorial choices. Here's the problem: the nature of LLMs themselves do not allow companies to fully implement their editorial choices. There will always be mistakes, and one will be costly enough to put AIs on the national stage. This is the entire reason behind SB 53 and the desire for a framework around AI technology, not just from the state, but from the companies producing the AIs themselves.
- davidmckayv 1y ago
  You're conflating individual criminal liability with mandated prior restraint. If someone tells a chatbot they're going to commit a crime and the AI helps them, prosecute under existing law. But the company doesn't have knowledge of every individual interaction. That's not how the knowledge requirement works. You can't bootstrap individual criminal use into "the company should have known someone might use this for crimes, therefore they must filter everything." The "companies want this" argument is irrelevant. Even if true, it doesn't make prior restraint constitutional. The government can't delegate its censorship powers to willing corporations. If companies are worried about liability, the answer is tort reform or clarifying safe harbor provisions, not building state-mandated filtering infrastructure. On whether AI output is the company's speech: The First Amendment issue here isn't whose speech it is. It's that the government is compelling content-based restrictions. SB 53 doesn't just hold companies liable after harm occurs. It requires them to assess "dangerous capabilities" and implement "mitigations" before anyone gets hurt. That's prior restraint regardless of whether you call it the company's speech or not. Your argument about LLMs being imperfect actually proves my point. You're saying mistakes will happen, so we need a framework. But the framework you're defending says the government gets to define what counts as dangerous and mandate filtering for it. That's exactly the infrastructure I'm warning about. Today it's "we can't perfectly control the models." Tomorrow it's "since we have to filter anyway, here are some other categories the state defines as harmful." Given companies can't control their models perfectly due to the nature of AI technology, that's a product liability question, not a reason to establish government-mandated content filtering.

thesmtsolver 1y ago

Do libraries have freedom of speech? The same argument can then be used to censor libraries. Do books have freedom of speech? The same argument can then be used to censor parts of a book.

tadfisher 1y ago
Do we treat books as the protected speech of libraries? No. In fact we already ban books from library shelves regularly. Freedom of speech does not compel libraries to host The Anarchist's Cookbook, and does not prevent governments from limiting what libraries can host, under existing law.
- iamnothere 1y ago
  False. I have no clue where you got this idea, but libraries are perfectly within their right to have it on their shelves, just as publishers are allowed to publish it (present copyright conflicts aside). Repeated legal attacks against the book, at least in the US, were unsuccessful. You may be conflating “libraries” with “school libraries,” where some states have won the right to limit the contents of shelves. Public libraries have certainly faced pressure about certain books, but legally they are free to stock whatever they want. In practice they often have to deal with repeated theft or vandalism of controversial books, so sometimes they pull them.
  - tadfisher 1y ago
    > You may be conflating “libraries” with “school libraries,” For the purpose of this discussion, there is zero difference, unless you can articulate one that matters. Feel free to mentally prefix any mention of "library" with "school" if you like.
    - iamnothere 1y ago
      School libraries are state institutions under the control of various Boards of Education. As state institutions their rules and policies can be set by statute or Board policy. It has nothing to do with freedom of speech. English teachers likewise must focus on teaching English at work, but this is not a restriction on their freedom of speech. (That said, I am opposed to political restrictions on school library books. It is still not a free speech issue.)

themafia 1y ago

My reading is you can teach a criminal how to make bombs. You cannot teach them with the /intent/ that they'll use a bomb to commit a specific crime. It's an enhancement.