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Sorry, tech is moving to China. It's a cultural thing. The USA never has and probably never will really value technical talent. "Noone gets paid until som

Sorry, tech is moving to China. It's a cultural thing. The USA never has and probably never will really value technical talent. "Noone gets paid until something gets sold". I heard this mantra over and over again from US business leadership during my technical career. It never occurred to them that nothing gets sold until something gets built. They just took that part for granted.

hippo22 1y ago
I think both engineering and sales take the customer for granted. Engineering often views their role as taking in specs and outputting product with little regard to whether or not the product is actually worth buying. Sales views customers as a resource to exploit rather than an entity to serve. Both sides have gotten so far and lazy from American hegemony that it’s no surprise China has usurped the US.
- fluoridation 1y ago
  When that's true, I don't think that's the fault of either of those divisions. The job of one is to build things, and the job of the other is to sell things, and that's it. Considering and analyzing the customer's needs would probably fall under R&D or market research, and piping those findings into other divisions would have to be the job of leadership. So in other words, if a company is making and selling things nobody wants, it's the fault of the decision makers.
- palmotea 1y ago
  > Both sides have gotten so far and lazy from American hegemony that it’s no surprise China has usurped the US. China has usurped the US because a handful of businessmen decided to personally make money over several decades by basically exporting capability and know-how for modest short-term profits, and the Chinese government was far-sighted enough to help them and make sure they got the better end of the bargain (over the long term). The lazy and incompetent western worker trope is just BS to justify this destructive enrichment strategy.
  - hippo22 1y ago
    Of course, profit motivated offshoring is a cause of the current situation. But it feels a little revisionist to attribute that as the _only_ cause. Culturally, the country derided blue collar work for a long time. The fact that everyone should attend college and strive for white collar work was unquestioned orthodoxy. Ultimately, this cultural mindset led to the commoditization of society. Everything was a resource to be managed and optimized. Efficiency was paramount. And this viewpoint wasn’t just espoused by the capitalist class, it was shared by our “brightest” academic minds. Nobel laureate economists (e.g. Paul Krugman) told the public how great globalization would be because it increased economic efficiency. What was missed in all this is that not everything is a resource that can be managed in a spreadsheet, CRM, or JIRA tracker. Delivering value is an art. It requires skills honed through practice and taste that comes from appreciation of craft. Culturally, we’ve lost appreciation for the process of creation. We want to be fat and lazy and do our “important” jobs and get paid. But that won’t work for long.
    - palmotea 1y ago
      > Of course, profit motivated offshoring is a cause of the current situation. But it feels a little revisionist to attribute that as the _only_ cause. > Culturally, the country derided blue collar work for a long time. The fact that everyone should attend college and strive for white collar work was unquestioned orthodoxy. I'd bet much of that attitude (at least in the masses) was driven by offshoring. Why go into blue collar work when sooner or later the plant's going to get sent overseas? If you're selling offshoring, you've got to weaken the opposition by denigrating the assets you're sending a way, and you've gotta offer some glimmer of hope to the people you're disrupting (and that hope can he a college degree and a white collar job). > Ultimately, this cultural mindset led to the commoditization of society. Everything was a resource to be managed and optimized. Efficiency was paramount. And this viewpoint wasn’t just espoused by the capitalist class, it was shared by our “brightest” academic minds. Nobel laureate economists (e.g. Paul Krugman) told the public how great globalization would be because it increased economic efficiency. Personally, I consider those guys to be the businessmen's lackeys.
      - 1y ago
mingus88 1y ago
> nothing gets sold until something gets built Never dealt with salespeople before? You don’t have to look hard for examples of sales promising things that engineering then has to try and deliver. I think Dilbert comics from the 90s rang that bell nearly every week.
- jqpabc123 1y ago
  The USA is ruled by lawyers and sales people and most recently by blatant liars and con artists. China is ruled by engineers. And their leadership has correctly identified the weaknesses of our approach and are working to exploit them and demonstrating significant success at doing so. In 64 critical technology driven areas, China now leads the USA is all but 7. The data is available for all to see and from multiple sources. And unfortunately, name calling and denial won't change it. https://itif.org/publications/2025/09/23/how-china-is-outperforming-the-united-states-in-critical-technologies/ https://itif.org/publications/2025/09/23/how-china-is-outper... https://www.techspot.com/news/97802-china-leads-us-37-out-44-critical-technologies.html https://www.techspot.com/news/97802-china-leads-us-37-out-44...
billy99k 1y ago
China? Lol. Their econony has been built on mostly stolen IP. I don't know any major piece of software or hardware innovations coming out of China. In the 90s they innovated lethal injection drugs.
- ThrowawayR2 1y ago
  That's what they said about Japan and Taiwan in the 1970s.

hippo22 1y ago

I think both engineering and sales take the customer for granted. Engineering often views their role as taking in specs and outputting product with little regard to whether or not the product is actually worth buying. Sales views customers as a resource to exploit rather than an entity to serve. Both sides have gotten so far and lazy from American hegemony that it’s no surprise China has usurped the US.

fluoridation 1y ago
When that's true, I don't think that's the fault of either of those divisions. The job of one is to build things, and the job of the other is to sell things, and that's it. Considering and analyzing the customer's needs would probably fall under R&D or market research, and piping those findings into other divisions would have to be the job of leadership. So in other words, if a company is making and selling things nobody wants, it's the fault of the decision makers.
palmotea 1y ago
> Both sides have gotten so far and lazy from American hegemony that it’s no surprise China has usurped the US. China has usurped the US because a handful of businessmen decided to personally make money over several decades by basically exporting capability and know-how for modest short-term profits, and the Chinese government was far-sighted enough to help them and make sure they got the better end of the bargain (over the long term). The lazy and incompetent western worker trope is just BS to justify this destructive enrichment strategy.
- hippo22 1y ago
  Of course, profit motivated offshoring is a cause of the current situation. But it feels a little revisionist to attribute that as the _only_ cause. Culturally, the country derided blue collar work for a long time. The fact that everyone should attend college and strive for white collar work was unquestioned orthodoxy. Ultimately, this cultural mindset led to the commoditization of society. Everything was a resource to be managed and optimized. Efficiency was paramount. And this viewpoint wasn’t just espoused by the capitalist class, it was shared by our “brightest” academic minds. Nobel laureate economists (e.g. Paul Krugman) told the public how great globalization would be because it increased economic efficiency. What was missed in all this is that not everything is a resource that can be managed in a spreadsheet, CRM, or JIRA tracker. Delivering value is an art. It requires skills honed through practice and taste that comes from appreciation of craft. Culturally, we’ve lost appreciation for the process of creation. We want to be fat and lazy and do our “important” jobs and get paid. But that won’t work for long.
  - palmotea 1y ago
    > Of course, profit motivated offshoring is a cause of the current situation. But it feels a little revisionist to attribute that as the _only_ cause. > Culturally, the country derided blue collar work for a long time. The fact that everyone should attend college and strive for white collar work was unquestioned orthodoxy. I'd bet much of that attitude (at least in the masses) was driven by offshoring. Why go into blue collar work when sooner or later the plant's going to get sent overseas? If you're selling offshoring, you've got to weaken the opposition by denigrating the assets you're sending a way, and you've gotta offer some glimmer of hope to the people you're disrupting (and that hope can he a college degree and a white collar job). > Ultimately, this cultural mindset led to the commoditization of society. Everything was a resource to be managed and optimized. Efficiency was paramount. And this viewpoint wasn’t just espoused by the capitalist class, it was shared by our “brightest” academic minds. Nobel laureate economists (e.g. Paul Krugman) told the public how great globalization would be because it increased economic efficiency. Personally, I consider those guys to be the businessmen's lackeys.
    - 1y ago

mingus88 1y ago

> nothing gets sold until something gets built Never dealt with salespeople before? You don’t have to look hard for examples of sales promising things that engineering then has to try and deliver. I think Dilbert comics from the 90s rang that bell nearly every week.

jqpabc123 1y ago
The USA is ruled by lawyers and sales people and most recently by blatant liars and con artists. China is ruled by engineers. And their leadership has correctly identified the weaknesses of our approach and are working to exploit them and demonstrating significant success at doing so. In 64 critical technology driven areas, China now leads the USA is all but 7. The data is available for all to see and from multiple sources. And unfortunately, name calling and denial won't change it. https://itif.org/publications/2025/09/23/how-china-is-outperforming-the-united-states-in-critical-technologies/ https://itif.org/publications/2025/09/23/how-china-is-outper... https://www.techspot.com/news/97802-china-leads-us-37-out-44-critical-technologies.html https://www.techspot.com/news/97802-china-leads-us-37-out-44...

billy99k 1y ago

China? Lol. Their econony has been built on mostly stolen IP. I don't know any major piece of software or hardware innovations coming out of China. In the 90s they innovated lethal injection drugs.

ThrowawayR2 1y ago
That's what they said about Japan and Taiwan in the 1970s.