4 ms·

To some of us weirdos, it actually matters whether things we repeatedly stand up and declare or sing about are true, and whether the stories we draw meaning fro

by gjm11 1y ago

To some of us weirdos, it actually matters whether things we repeatedly stand up and declare or sing about are true, and whether the stories we draw meaning from are factually correct, and whether values we repeatedly and publicly affiliate ourselves with are good. And, among this admittedly weird fragment of the population, those of us who think the things churchgoers affirm and derive meaning from and value are true and good are mostly already going to church, and those of us who think they're not so true and mostly not so good shouldn't be going to church, no matter how sorry our asses.

gosub100 1y ago
Have you ever given a Christmas gift to someone? Or do you abstain because it requires a belief in flying reindeer?
- lurking_swe 1y ago
  I’m not the person you replied to. I was raised catholic, but these days I don’t believe in god and think the church is a waste of time. But i DO still celebrate christmas. Not for ME, but as an excuse to connect with family and friends. In other words, i don’t go to church and subject myself to nodding to 60 minutes of nonsense (to me). Instead I join for christmas lunch / dinner. The socializing part. The good part. If my family was not catholic then i’d just throw a nice new year’s party instead. Again - just to get everyone together. I have a friend that celebrates Hanukkah and i’ve occasionally joined their family to celebrate as well. What does belief in a religion have to do with participating in social events that happen to be rooted in religion? Maybe i don’t “get it”?
  - gosub100 1y ago
    > What does belief in a religion have to do with participating in social events that happen to be rooted in religion? I'm not making that claim. I'm addressing the reverse: someone who refuses to go to church ("participating in social events ") because he doesn't believe the dogma. And so I brought up that many people have no such reservations about participating in Christmas traditions and activities.
- gjm11 1y ago
  I've given many Christmas gifts. None of them required anyone to believe in flying reindeer, Turkish bishops living at the north pole, frosty winds and frozen water in a place that never gets below 10degC or so, etc. All it requires is a tradition of exchanging gifts at that time of the year. If giving gifts at Christmas required me to declare solemnly that I was doing it in the name of the incarnate Son of God and that the presents under the tree had actually been delivered by flying reindeer, then I wouldn't do it; I'd find some other way of being nice to the people I love that didn't require me to lie. So, anyway, perhaps your point is that I could find a church that doesn't expect me to actually believe, or say, or sing, any of the usual churchy things, and then I could go there every week. I suppose I could. But I think all those things Christians believe are somewhat load-bearing for Christianity and suspect that going to church every week while remaining an atheist wouldn't actually get me most of the benefits that regular churchgoing is alleged to give the people who do it.

by gjm11 1y ago

gosub100 1y ago

Have you ever given a Christmas gift to someone? Or do you abstain because it requires a belief in flying reindeer?

lurking_swe 1y ago
I’m not the person you replied to. I was raised catholic, but these days I don’t believe in god and think the church is a waste of time. But i DO still celebrate christmas. Not for ME, but as an excuse to connect with family and friends. In other words, i don’t go to church and subject myself to nodding to 60 minutes of nonsense (to me). Instead I join for christmas lunch / dinner. The socializing part. The good part. If my family was not catholic then i’d just throw a nice new year’s party instead. Again - just to get everyone together. I have a friend that celebrates Hanukkah and i’ve occasionally joined their family to celebrate as well. What does belief in a religion have to do with participating in social events that happen to be rooted in religion? Maybe i don’t “get it”?
- gosub100 1y ago
  > What does belief in a religion have to do with participating in social events that happen to be rooted in religion? I'm not making that claim. I'm addressing the reverse: someone who refuses to go to church ("participating in social events ") because he doesn't believe the dogma. And so I brought up that many people have no such reservations about participating in Christmas traditions and activities.
gjm11 1y ago
I've given many Christmas gifts. None of them required anyone to believe in flying reindeer, Turkish bishops living at the north pole, frosty winds and frozen water in a place that never gets below 10degC or so, etc. All it requires is a tradition of exchanging gifts at that time of the year. If giving gifts at Christmas required me to declare solemnly that I was doing it in the name of the incarnate Son of God and that the presents under the tree had actually been delivered by flying reindeer, then I wouldn't do it; I'd find some other way of being nice to the people I love that didn't require me to lie. So, anyway, perhaps your point is that I could find a church that doesn't expect me to actually believe, or say, or sing, any of the usual churchy things, and then I could go there every week. I suppose I could. But I think all those things Christians believe are somewhat load-bearing for Christianity and suspect that going to church every week while remaining an atheist wouldn't actually get me most of the benefits that regular churchgoing is alleged to give the people who do it.