4 ms·

I want to start by saying I have no skin in the game here. While not perfect, Saudi has very clearly moved "Westernly" on many ideas, most notably social and e

I want to start by saying I have no skin in the game here. While not perfect, Saudi has very clearly moved "Westernly" on many ideas, most notably social and economic ones. It can even be argued that their recent moves in that direction have made it near impossible for the other large economy companies to move too far the other way. Th At what point does the narrative about their investments on the larger stage become less pejorative?

sofixa 1y ago
[flagged]
- fred_is_fred 1y ago
  Sadly enough there are many in the US who are actively working to move the US towards the world you painted above.
- frogperson 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - sofixa 1y ago
    The USA isn't the only country in the "western world", please stop equating the two. Even for Britain, France, Germany, the countries with the biggest far right/reactionary political groups, where there are legitimate chances for them to end up in power, none of them are religious. Or even that socially reactionary for that matter.
    - hollerith 1y ago
      Also, even the US is not in danger of becoming a theocracy.
      - KerrAvon 1y ago
        [flagged]
        prewett 1y ago
        [flagged]
        wat10000 1y ago
        Never mind third in line, the dude who is currently President just put out a memorandum declaring "anti-Christianity" to be on the same level as "support for the overthrow of the United States Government."
        tomhow 1y ago
        When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - sofixa 1y ago
        I really wouldn't go this far, there is _way_ too much religion in US politics for proper separation of church and state. When elected politicians regularly quote religious documents in their reasoning for making decisions, agreeing and disagreeing with others, etc. you can't claim a theocracy isn't on the cards.
        hollerith 1y ago
        Maybe we have different definitions of theocracy. According to your definition, has there been a time in the past when the US was a theocracy?
        sofixa 1y ago
        No, it has not. But you cannot deny that religion being a visible, daily, part of politics, and being very often quoted as justification for political, and even worse, judicial decisions, is closer to a theocracy than it is to separation of church and state.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - adornKey 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - sofixa 1y ago
        [flagged]
        adornKey 1y ago
        [flagged]
        tomhow 1y ago
        You can't comment like this on Hacker News, no matter what you're replying to. Phrases like "You've bought into multiple cults" and "I think you're pretty lost. Study some history. Seek help!" are never acceptable on HN, no matter the context. And, really, are we still arguing about masks in 2025? Nobody is changing their mind about it now. Please just let it go. Discussion like this is not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        adornKey 1y ago
        Calling cargo cultists to get back to data and science is absolutely something for Hackers.. This is the only thing that might help them. - and they need help - If nobody can find keywords about those subjects to get started researching, they'll end up like the women in Iran. In Iran it was more difficult to argue against some vague will of god. But the modern western cargo cults go openly against hard data. So it's a lot easier - at least for people with a bit of skill in math in physics.
        tomhow 1y ago
        Please don't engage in flamewar about the relative merits of nations or regions (or COVID masks in 2025) on HN. It's not what HN is for and it destroys what it is for. This article is about the acquisition of a computer games company. The discussion ended up in a completely irrelevant and toxic place. Please remind yourself of the guidelines and make an effort to heed them in future. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- FergusArgyll 1y ago
  Don't confuse stock and flow
- triceratops 1y ago
  > It has liberalised, socially I think that's what they meant by "moved westernly".
  - kakacik 1y ago
    Sure, 2 inches per year, 2 steps ahead 1 step back in a good year. In 2000 years they may approach current levels of personal or religious freedom that average western country has. Till then, its absolutely horrible place if you are in any sort of minority group, or woman, or want that pesky freedom for you or your children.
    - triceratops 1y ago
      Criticism and insults from people like you is exactly what they need to go faster. /s
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
iaw 1y ago
They have a well documented and known human slave trade for their laborers in the kingdom. Maybe the narrative changes when their approaches towards human rights does?
- wat10000 1y ago
  "Why does everybody have such a low opinion of this oppressive theocracy?" Gee, it's such a mystery. Remember when the current leader of Saudi Arabia lured a Washington Post journalist into a Saudi consulate, had him tortured to death, and cut into pieces to dispose of the evidence? What a bunch of merry pranksters. We really should lighten up.
  - typpilol 1y ago
    Meanwhile... we have a former terrorist who posed after cutting multiple persons heads off speaking at the UN....
    - wat10000 1y ago
      Is that related somehow or are you just trying to diminish the awfulness of Saudi Arabia's government by bringing up the awfulness of some other guy?
      - typpilol 1y ago
        Just bringing up the absurdity of it. I wasn't trying to say Saudi isn't as bad, I meant to say they're all terrible Awful people run the world.
- NickC25 1y ago
  >Maybe the narrative changes when their approaches towards human rights does? Clo$e. The narrative change$ whenever the $audi$ decide that they want it to. U$ually, thi$ involve$ $omething, but I can't figure quite what that "it" could be.
burkaman 1y ago
They literally just killed another journalist after torturing him for seven years https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turki_bin_Abdulaziz_al-Jasser https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turki_bin_Abdulaziz_al-Jasse... Another murder last month, this one they killed for the crimes of attending protests and funerals: https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde23/0239/2025/en/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde23/0239/2025/en/ Two years ago they sentenced this man to death because he tweeted something they didn't like to less than ten followers: https://www.uscirf.gov/religious-prisoners-conscience/forb-victims-database/mohammed-al-ghamdi https://www.uscirf.gov/religious-prisoners-conscience/forb-v...
- throwup238 1y ago
  Wikipedia says that one of the charges was “financing terrorist activities”. Ironic in the most morbid of ways.
NickC25 1y ago
>While not perfect, Saudi has very clearly moved "Westernly" on many ideas, most notably social and economic ones. My man, they can kill you for drawing a stick figure. Let that sink in. SA is still a single-export economy, and those who are smart enough to get out of SA, do so. From personally having very close relationships with a few folks who worked on the NEOM project, the Saudi locals are not prepared to do any work at all, just spend money and export the work to consultants. It's about posturing, not rolling up their sleeves.
- sleepybrett 1y ago
  The kingdom literally butchered a journalist for writing about what they were doing. Islamaphobia about sharia law bullshit doesn't even apply.
  - NickC25 1y ago
    Yeah. They don't have a good track record, and that's before the (partially justified) Islamophobia kicks in. Before anyone thinks I'm Islamophobic, I equally detest and mock all religion. I do find it funny that if there is an afterlife, Abraham is there, and absolutely befuddled as to why all of his disciples seem to hate each other and want to kill each other.
RankingMember 1y ago
> I want to start by saying I have no skin in the game here We all have skin in the game when there's an actor on the world stage that kills its critics buying up huge orgs in our society.

sofixa 1y ago

[flagged]

fred_is_fred 1y ago
Sadly enough there are many in the US who are actively working to move the US towards the world you painted above.
frogperson 1y ago
[flagged]
- sofixa 1y ago
  The USA isn't the only country in the "western world", please stop equating the two. Even for Britain, France, Germany, the countries with the biggest far right/reactionary political groups, where there are legitimate chances for them to end up in power, none of them are religious. Or even that socially reactionary for that matter.
  - hollerith 1y ago
    Also, even the US is not in danger of becoming a theocracy.
    - KerrAvon 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - prewett 1y ago
        [flagged]
      - wat10000 1y ago
        Never mind third in line, the dude who is currently President just put out a memorandum declaring "anti-Christianity" to be on the same level as "support for the overthrow of the United States Government."
      - tomhow 1y ago
        When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - sofixa 1y ago
      I really wouldn't go this far, there is _way_ too much religion in US politics for proper separation of church and state. When elected politicians regularly quote religious documents in their reasoning for making decisions, agreeing and disagreeing with others, etc. you can't claim a theocracy isn't on the cards.
      - hollerith 1y ago
        Maybe we have different definitions of theocracy. According to your definition, has there been a time in the past when the US was a theocracy?
        sofixa 1y ago
        No, it has not. But you cannot deny that religion being a visible, daily, part of politics, and being very often quoted as justification for political, and even worse, judicial decisions, is closer to a theocracy than it is to separation of church and state.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - adornKey 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - sofixa 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - adornKey 1y ago
        [flagged]
        tomhow 1y ago
        You can't comment like this on Hacker News, no matter what you're replying to. Phrases like "You've bought into multiple cults" and "I think you're pretty lost. Study some history. Seek help!" are never acceptable on HN, no matter the context. And, really, are we still arguing about masks in 2025? Nobody is changing their mind about it now. Please just let it go. Discussion like this is not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        adornKey 1y ago
        Calling cargo cultists to get back to data and science is absolutely something for Hackers.. This is the only thing that might help them. - and they need help - If nobody can find keywords about those subjects to get started researching, they'll end up like the women in Iran. In Iran it was more difficult to argue against some vague will of god. But the modern western cargo cults go openly against hard data. So it's a lot easier - at least for people with a bit of skill in math in physics.
      - tomhow 1y ago
        Please don't engage in flamewar about the relative merits of nations or regions (or COVID masks in 2025) on HN. It's not what HN is for and it destroys what it is for. This article is about the acquisition of a computer games company. The discussion ended up in a completely irrelevant and toxic place. Please remind yourself of the guidelines and make an effort to heed them in future. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
FergusArgyll 1y ago
Don't confuse stock and flow
triceratops 1y ago
> It has liberalised, socially I think that's what they meant by "moved westernly".
- kakacik 1y ago
  Sure, 2 inches per year, 2 steps ahead 1 step back in a good year. In 2000 years they may approach current levels of personal or religious freedom that average western country has. Till then, its absolutely horrible place if you are in any sort of minority group, or woman, or want that pesky freedom for you or your children.
  - triceratops 1y ago
    Criticism and insults from people like you is exactly what they need to go faster. /s
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

iaw 1y ago

They have a well documented and known human slave trade for their laborers in the kingdom. Maybe the narrative changes when their approaches towards human rights does?

wat10000 1y ago
"Why does everybody have such a low opinion of this oppressive theocracy?" Gee, it's such a mystery. Remember when the current leader of Saudi Arabia lured a Washington Post journalist into a Saudi consulate, had him tortured to death, and cut into pieces to dispose of the evidence? What a bunch of merry pranksters. We really should lighten up.
- typpilol 1y ago
  Meanwhile... we have a former terrorist who posed after cutting multiple persons heads off speaking at the UN....
  - wat10000 1y ago
    Is that related somehow or are you just trying to diminish the awfulness of Saudi Arabia's government by bringing up the awfulness of some other guy?
    - typpilol 1y ago
      Just bringing up the absurdity of it. I wasn't trying to say Saudi isn't as bad, I meant to say they're all terrible Awful people run the world.
NickC25 1y ago
>Maybe the narrative changes when their approaches towards human rights does? Clo$e. The narrative change$ whenever the $audi$ decide that they want it to. U$ually, thi$ involve$ $omething, but I can't figure quite what that "it" could be.

burkaman 1y ago

They literally just killed another journalist after torturing him for seven years https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turki_bin_Abdulaziz_al-Jasser https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turki_bin_Abdulaziz_al-Jasse... Another murder last month, this one they killed for the crimes of attending protests and funerals: https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde23/0239/2025/en/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde23/0239/2025/en/ Two years ago they sentenced this man to death because he tweeted something they didn't like to less than ten followers: https://www.uscirf.gov/religious-prisoners-conscience/forb-victims-database/mohammed-al-ghamdi https://www.uscirf.gov/religious-prisoners-conscience/forb-v...

throwup238 1y ago
Wikipedia says that one of the charges was “financing terrorist activities”. Ironic in the most morbid of ways.

NickC25 1y ago

>While not perfect, Saudi has very clearly moved "Westernly" on many ideas, most notably social and economic ones. My man, they can kill you for drawing a stick figure. Let that sink in. SA is still a single-export economy, and those who are smart enough to get out of SA, do so. From personally having very close relationships with a few folks who worked on the NEOM project, the Saudi locals are not prepared to do any work at all, just spend money and export the work to consultants. It's about posturing, not rolling up their sleeves.

sleepybrett 1y ago
The kingdom literally butchered a journalist for writing about what they were doing. Islamaphobia about sharia law bullshit doesn't even apply.
- NickC25 1y ago
  Yeah. They don't have a good track record, and that's before the (partially justified) Islamophobia kicks in. Before anyone thinks I'm Islamophobic, I equally detest and mock all religion. I do find it funny that if there is an afterlife, Abraham is there, and absolutely befuddled as to why all of his disciples seem to hate each other and want to kill each other.

RankingMember 1y ago

> I want to start by saying I have no skin in the game here We all have skin in the game when there's an actor on the world stage that kills its critics buying up huge orgs in our society.