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> And don’t try to convince me that a Java developer from India possesses skills that our university graduates don’t. Everyone defending H1Bs forgets why we ev

> And don’t try to convince me that a Java developer from India possesses skills that our university graduates don’t. Everyone defending H1Bs forgets why we even have an economy. America never signed up to be some hegemon that needs to compete with the entire world. America exists for the sake of Americans, not the world, first and foremost. We can help other people after that point. You get revolutions and revolutionary acts when it feels that the opportunity for foreigners and the aristocratic is exceeding opportunity for the normal everyday people born here, and that is a legitimate injustice.

hvb2 1y ago
> America exists for the sake of Americans, not the world, first and foremost. We can help other people after that point. But you do want to sell to all of the world, am I correct? So you basically want the pros and none of the cons? And you also expect the rest of the world to buy an your debt? Because America as a country would be bankrupt instantly if that rest of the world stopped supporting you.
- gjsman-1000 1y ago
  Almost every country short of Liechtenstein would be bankrupt if other countries stopped buying their debt. As such, the argument is not relevant, unless you believe that ethnicity has no correlation to country, and India should welcome Americans just as well.
  - hvb2 1y ago
    > Almost every country short of Liechtenstein would be bankrupt if other countries stopped buying their debt. Sure but not many countries never seem to run a deficit. > and India should welcome Americans just as well. Somehow I've met 10+ Americans who all seem to think you just submit a form and get an H1B... Being a non resident alien is no fun. Being forced to leave the country to renew your visa? Makes sense but there's a certain uneasiness that goes with it every time Switching employers is much harder, because the new one needs to be willing to sponsor The pathway to staying in the US long term is super long. If you are this talented person from India and want to make America your home, getting a green card takes over 12 years... All those years you're essentially in limbo especially with current political circumstances. That's what people are willing to put up with to be granted the ability to live and work in the US. I'm not saying that's unfair and you cannot require such things but don't think it's a walk in the park
  - piva00 1y ago
    > As such, the argument is not relevant, unless you believe that ethnicity has no correlation to country What ethnicity do you think Americans are?
- oytis 1y ago
  Absolutely, US software industry wouldn't be nearly as large as well-paying without (allegedly useless) US domination over the world
MeetingsBrowser 1y ago
> America exists for the sake of Americans Anyone living, working, or otherwise contributing to society in America can become an American. > America exists for the sake of Americans, not the world, first and foremost. ... opportunity for foreigners [...] exceeding opportunity for [...] people born here, and that is a legitimate injustice. That is IMO an un-American statement. America is, in theory, the land of opportunity. Not only for the "right kind of people".
- gjsman-1000 1y ago
  > That is IMO an un-American statement. America is, in theory, the land of opportunity. Not only for the "right kind of people". The people who live here have a right, first and foremost, to opportunities. If they are vocally and statistically proving that opportunities are bad right now, the H1B needs to be pulled for their sake. It can be put back once balance has been achieved. > Anyone living, working, or otherwise contributing to society in America is an American. Absolutely not. If I export my new invention to Europe and it changes society, I am contributing to European society, but I am not European. If I take a visa to Europe and start doing contract work illegally, I am not European.
  - skeeter2020 1y ago
    your stance of "get here first or if someone's already here take what you want from them" doesn't seem that different from the GP you're refuting.
  - estimator7292 1y ago
    Does your stance apply to native Americans or is it exclusively about immigrants?
    - ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
      I had a friend that had a T-shirt with an old photo of a bunch of American Indians (I think Apache), standing with guns and other weapons. They looked rather fierce. It said "Homeland Security: Fighting Terrorism Since 1492".
motbus3 1y ago
Now with AI, cheap labour is overrated and all Those people want is for you to make a contract with openai/meta whatever or to break your business for them to take. There will be no new jobs. The BBB comes with a hidden line saying that no billionaire should get sad for any reason The only people losing the competition is those who cannot afford to pay more anyway that will need to use AI or get out of the market completely.
yatopifo 1y ago
You are mistaken. The US doesn’t exist for the sake of Americans. It exist for corporations and corporations only.
tycho-newman 1y ago
Maybe we should let people work wherever they want? The tech companies will just offshore the jobs they’d otherwise use for visas. India is a cool place. Lots of Americans would do well to live and work there. They’d probably even be a bit happier. But they can’t because of visas. For most of human history, you were free to decamp to greener pastures. Cultural chauvinism still existed and thrived in this more porous world. Why do we accept limitations on our freedom of movement?
- HPsquared 1y ago
  People are moving around a lot faster than before with cheap air travel and modern internet. Some like this new dynamic, others don't. It's an evolving situation.
- oytis 1y ago
  What's the problem with Indian visas? At least on a cursory glance looks straightforward
  - tycho-newman 1y ago
    Nothing. American workers will rarely consider offshoring themselves. Which is a shame.
- ponector 1y ago
  >> India is a cool place. Lots of Americans would do well to live and work there. Would be interesting to see US people to live there on $30k salary.
  - tycho-newman 1y ago
    Lots of Americans live on that right now. It would go further in India.

hvb2 1y ago

> America exists for the sake of Americans, not the world, first and foremost. We can help other people after that point. But you do want to sell to all of the world, am I correct? So you basically want the pros and none of the cons? And you also expect the rest of the world to buy an your debt? Because America as a country would be bankrupt instantly if that rest of the world stopped supporting you.

gjsman-1000 1y ago
Almost every country short of Liechtenstein would be bankrupt if other countries stopped buying their debt. As such, the argument is not relevant, unless you believe that ethnicity has no correlation to country, and India should welcome Americans just as well.
- hvb2 1y ago
  > Almost every country short of Liechtenstein would be bankrupt if other countries stopped buying their debt. Sure but not many countries never seem to run a deficit. > and India should welcome Americans just as well. Somehow I've met 10+ Americans who all seem to think you just submit a form and get an H1B... Being a non resident alien is no fun. Being forced to leave the country to renew your visa? Makes sense but there's a certain uneasiness that goes with it every time Switching employers is much harder, because the new one needs to be willing to sponsor The pathway to staying in the US long term is super long. If you are this talented person from India and want to make America your home, getting a green card takes over 12 years... All those years you're essentially in limbo especially with current political circumstances. That's what people are willing to put up with to be granted the ability to live and work in the US. I'm not saying that's unfair and you cannot require such things but don't think it's a walk in the park
- piva00 1y ago
  > As such, the argument is not relevant, unless you believe that ethnicity has no correlation to country What ethnicity do you think Americans are?
oytis 1y ago
Absolutely, US software industry wouldn't be nearly as large as well-paying without (allegedly useless) US domination over the world

MeetingsBrowser 1y ago

> America exists for the sake of Americans Anyone living, working, or otherwise contributing to society in America can become an American. > America exists for the sake of Americans, not the world, first and foremost. ... opportunity for foreigners [...] exceeding opportunity for [...] people born here, and that is a legitimate injustice. That is IMO an un-American statement. America is, in theory, the land of opportunity. Not only for the "right kind of people".

gjsman-1000 1y ago
> That is IMO an un-American statement. America is, in theory, the land of opportunity. Not only for the "right kind of people". The people who live here have a right, first and foremost, to opportunities. If they are vocally and statistically proving that opportunities are bad right now, the H1B needs to be pulled for their sake. It can be put back once balance has been achieved. > Anyone living, working, or otherwise contributing to society in America is an American. Absolutely not. If I export my new invention to Europe and it changes society, I am contributing to European society, but I am not European. If I take a visa to Europe and start doing contract work illegally, I am not European.
- skeeter2020 1y ago
  your stance of "get here first or if someone's already here take what you want from them" doesn't seem that different from the GP you're refuting.
- estimator7292 1y ago
  Does your stance apply to native Americans or is it exclusively about immigrants?
  - ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
    I had a friend that had a T-shirt with an old photo of a bunch of American Indians (I think Apache), standing with guns and other weapons. They looked rather fierce. It said "Homeland Security: Fighting Terrorism Since 1492".

motbus3 1y ago

Now with AI, cheap labour is overrated and all Those people want is for you to make a contract with openai/meta whatever or to break your business for them to take. There will be no new jobs. The BBB comes with a hidden line saying that no billionaire should get sad for any reason The only people losing the competition is those who cannot afford to pay more anyway that will need to use AI or get out of the market completely.

yatopifo 1y ago

You are mistaken. The US doesn’t exist for the sake of Americans. It exist for corporations and corporations only.

tycho-newman 1y ago

Maybe we should let people work wherever they want? The tech companies will just offshore the jobs they’d otherwise use for visas. India is a cool place. Lots of Americans would do well to live and work there. They’d probably even be a bit happier. But they can’t because of visas. For most of human history, you were free to decamp to greener pastures. Cultural chauvinism still existed and thrived in this more porous world. Why do we accept limitations on our freedom of movement?

HPsquared 1y ago
People are moving around a lot faster than before with cheap air travel and modern internet. Some like this new dynamic, others don't. It's an evolving situation.
oytis 1y ago
What's the problem with Indian visas? At least on a cursory glance looks straightforward
- tycho-newman 1y ago
  Nothing. American workers will rarely consider offshoring themselves. Which is a shame.
ponector 1y ago
>> India is a cool place. Lots of Americans would do well to live and work there. Would be interesting to see US people to live there on $30k salary.
- tycho-newman 1y ago
  Lots of Americans live on that right now. It would go further in India.