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The elephant in the room: the H1B visa and the influx of Indian workers into the U.S. labor market. Many of them are willing to work for lower wages, demand les

The elephant in the room: the H1B visa and the influx of Indian workers into the U.S. labor market. Many of them are willing to work for lower wages, demand less, and have fewer rights—essentially becoming exploited labor for Corporate America. Why would a corporation hire an American graduate who won’t tolerate these conditions when an H1B worker will? Instead of confronting the issue directly, people often sidestep it with other excuses. The reality is, if we eliminated all H1B workers, every American in the IT industry, including recent graduates, would have a job. And don’t try to convince me that a Java developer from India possesses skills that our university graduates don’t.

gjsman-1000 1y ago
> And don’t try to convince me that a Java developer from India possesses skills that our university graduates don’t. Everyone defending H1Bs forgets why we even have an economy. America never signed up to be some hegemon that needs to compete with the entire world. America exists for the sake of Americans, not the world, first and foremost. We can help other people after that point. You get revolutions and revolutionary acts when it feels that the opportunity for foreigners and the aristocratic is exceeding opportunity for the normal everyday people born here, and that is a legitimate injustice.
- hvb2 1y ago
  > America exists for the sake of Americans, not the world, first and foremost. We can help other people after that point. But you do want to sell to all of the world, am I correct? So you basically want the pros and none of the cons? And you also expect the rest of the world to buy an your debt? Because America as a country would be bankrupt instantly if that rest of the world stopped supporting you.
  - gjsman-1000 1y ago
    Almost every country short of Liechtenstein would be bankrupt if other countries stopped buying their debt. As such, the argument is not relevant, unless you believe that ethnicity has no correlation to country, and India should welcome Americans just as well.
    - hvb2 1y ago
      > Almost every country short of Liechtenstein would be bankrupt if other countries stopped buying their debt. Sure but not many countries never seem to run a deficit. > and India should welcome Americans just as well. Somehow I've met 10+ Americans who all seem to think you just submit a form and get an H1B... Being a non resident alien is no fun. Being forced to leave the country to renew your visa? Makes sense but there's a certain uneasiness that goes with it every time Switching employers is much harder, because the new one needs to be willing to sponsor The pathway to staying in the US long term is super long. If you are this talented person from India and want to make America your home, getting a green card takes over 12 years... All those years you're essentially in limbo especially with current political circumstances. That's what people are willing to put up with to be granted the ability to live and work in the US. I'm not saying that's unfair and you cannot require such things but don't think it's a walk in the park
    - piva00 1y ago
      > As such, the argument is not relevant, unless you believe that ethnicity has no correlation to country What ethnicity do you think Americans are?
  - oytis 1y ago
    Absolutely, US software industry wouldn't be nearly as large as well-paying without (allegedly useless) US domination over the world
- MeetingsBrowser 1y ago
  > America exists for the sake of Americans Anyone living, working, or otherwise contributing to society in America can become an American. > America exists for the sake of Americans, not the world, first and foremost. ... opportunity for foreigners [...] exceeding opportunity for [...] people born here, and that is a legitimate injustice. That is IMO an un-American statement. America is, in theory, the land of opportunity. Not only for the "right kind of people".
  - gjsman-1000 1y ago
    > That is IMO an un-American statement. America is, in theory, the land of opportunity. Not only for the "right kind of people". The people who live here have a right, first and foremost, to opportunities. If they are vocally and statistically proving that opportunities are bad right now, the H1B needs to be pulled for their sake. It can be put back once balance has been achieved. > Anyone living, working, or otherwise contributing to society in America is an American. Absolutely not. If I export my new invention to Europe and it changes society, I am contributing to European society, but I am not European. If I take a visa to Europe and start doing contract work illegally, I am not European.
    - skeeter2020 1y ago
      your stance of "get here first or if someone's already here take what you want from them" doesn't seem that different from the GP you're refuting.
    - estimator7292 1y ago
      Does your stance apply to native Americans or is it exclusively about immigrants?
      - ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
        I had a friend that had a T-shirt with an old photo of a bunch of American Indians (I think Apache), standing with guns and other weapons. They looked rather fierce. It said "Homeland Security: Fighting Terrorism Since 1492".
- motbus3 1y ago
  Now with AI, cheap labour is overrated and all Those people want is for you to make a contract with openai/meta whatever or to break your business for them to take. There will be no new jobs. The BBB comes with a hidden line saying that no billionaire should get sad for any reason The only people losing the competition is those who cannot afford to pay more anyway that will need to use AI or get out of the market completely.
- yatopifo 1y ago
  You are mistaken. The US doesn’t exist for the sake of Americans. It exist for corporations and corporations only.
- tycho-newman 1y ago
  Maybe we should let people work wherever they want? The tech companies will just offshore the jobs they’d otherwise use for visas. India is a cool place. Lots of Americans would do well to live and work there. They’d probably even be a bit happier. But they can’t because of visas. For most of human history, you were free to decamp to greener pastures. Cultural chauvinism still existed and thrived in this more porous world. Why do we accept limitations on our freedom of movement?
  - HPsquared 1y ago
    People are moving around a lot faster than before with cheap air travel and modern internet. Some like this new dynamic, others don't. It's an evolving situation.
  - oytis 1y ago
    What's the problem with Indian visas? At least on a cursory glance looks straightforward
    - tycho-newman 1y ago
      Nothing. American workers will rarely consider offshoring themselves. Which is a shame.
  - ponector 1y ago
    >> India is a cool place. Lots of Americans would do well to live and work there. Would be interesting to see US people to live there on $30k salary.
    - tycho-newman 1y ago
      Lots of Americans live on that right now. It would go further in India.
laidoffamazon 1y ago
Hilarious implication that this visa is a new phenomenon
- Our_Benefactors 1y ago
  I didn’t see any such implication. What’s new is the sophisticated scams and parallel industries that exist to support falsified H1B petitions. It’s your civic duty to apply to H1B job postings. This is probably 10x more effective than using LinkedIn, which is designed to keep you in a holding pattern indefinitely. https://h1bvisajobs.com/ https://h1bvisajobs.com/
chaostheory 1y ago
If that is the actually the main problem, then the cost of H1Bs are now high enough to economically favor locals.
mikert89 1y ago
The crazy thing is how suppressed this opinion was. You got banned on most websites for bringing this up. I credit free speech on X for bringing h1b visas into the national conversation
- HankStallone 1y ago
  There's been a major shift just in the last few months. Those of us who have been concerned about this problem for years welcome them to the party, but with a bit of an eye-roll, because it's obvious that the shift wouldn't be happening if it were trucking and farming jobs under assault and not tech jobs.
- _fizz_buzz_ 1y ago
  Any example? Unless it was completely racist, I feel like a lot of people have been complaining about H1Bs for many years without any problems. Also here on hacker news.
emchammer 1y ago
Take it easy there, Michael Moore, next thing you’ll be asking for universal healthcare.
oytis 1y ago
It's truly amazing how little you need to intrude into the privileges of an already extremely privileged group as US software developers are, to make them go full "immigrats are taking our jobs".
- valec 1y ago
  well, they are. outsourcing is the bigger problem. just like outsourcing decimated manufacturing jobs, now it's decimating white-collar. i well and truly hope you get fired so you see how bad the market is. no other profession has this number of cruel, judgmental narcissists not looking out for their own kin.
breadwinner 1y ago
H-1B workers at companies such as Google, Meta or Microsoft are not treated any different, they are not taking abuse or being exploited. There may be smaller companies where this is happening though. One of the issues is conflation of IT jobs and High Tech jobs. Those making laws don't understand the difference -- they are all "computer jobs" to them. IT does not require immigrant labor. Companies such as Infosys and Tata don't need to be operating in the US. There are plenty of US workers available to do the job. But High Tech is different. High Tech needs the best in the world, not the best in the US. The US leads the world in tech not because the best ideas were all American but because the best people in the world immigrated to the US. Stopping this will be ruinous to American prosperity. The seminal research paper that kicked off the AI revolution (titled "Attention is all you need") was written by 2 Indians, 1 German, 1 British Canadian, 1 Pole, 1 Ukrainian, and 2 US born people. These people came to America, worked together and changed the world as we know it. Why would we want to stop it? Has this immigration undercut Americans? Far from it. These immigrants are the lifeblood of the tech industry, and their innovations create jobs.
- _Rabs_ 1y ago
  H-1B's are absolutely exploited. I'd personally testify to the abuses at financial companies. Hearing threats of "If you don't complete this by tomorrow, you can expect to be back in India by next week" From one Indian to another too... It's awful to witness it. Please don't spread misinformation that "They are not taking abuse or being exploited" That is extremely disingenuous.
  - breadwinner 1y ago
    Sorry that's untrue. Top companies such as Google, Meta or Microsoft absolutely do not abuse H-1B workers or treat them any different. As I said there may be smaller outfits, or IT shops where this is happening.
    - rybosworld 1y ago
      I've never worked at those companies. But to say that it _never_ happens there is a bit of an absurd thing to say.
dangus 1y ago
There are two types of H1B recipients, the type that you describe (in somewhat discriminatory terms) and the type that the program was built for. The actual geniuses that move to America and stay here to build crazy stuff are also H1B visa holders. We do NOT want to turn those people away. If you don’t like immigrants “taking your jobs” you are definitely not going to like the alternative reality of a brain drain. You aren’t going to like the alternative reality where there aren’t any immigrants starting businesses to hire you. Without immigration there’s no Google or Apple (these weren’t specifically H1B immigrants but still, Sergey Brin and Steve Jobs’ dad were first generation immigrants) Again I must point out that every H1B employee that is here is physically in America buying things from American businesses. Immigrants starting businesses at a higher rate than native born citizens. But I think it’s obvious that the program needs reform. Big companies have been gaming the system and using tricks to abuse it, and they use the visa’s restrictions to trap employees and give them below-market working conditions under the threat of visa revocation. My proposal would be: 1. Make the visa cost more to acquire depending on the amount of employees in the program at a single company. If your company has 10,000 H1B employees your cost to add another one should be a lot higher than a small company with one H1B worker. 2. Make the visa guarantee permanent resident status to the recipient for a time period once they’ve worked for their company for ~90 days. They should have full job mobility just like a citizen so their employer doesn’t use the program as an excuse to pay below-market wages. 3. Provide a real path to citizenship that doesn’t take decades. I think that people in the country who can treat it like a long-term “forever home” will be more beneficial than ones who have plans to go back home eventually.
- insane_dreamer 1y ago
  We have O1, EB1, EB2 for the "geniuses that move to America and stay here to build crazy stuff". That's not what the majority of H1B is used for.
_fizz_buzz_ 1y ago
I guess we'll see soon if this theory holds. If the 100k per year fee is truly implemented, H1B will be mostly dead.
- mhuffman 1y ago
  There is a loophole where companies hire H1B-type employees in their offices in another country and then move them to the US offices.
lkey 1y ago
You've identified the problem, but not the solution. We must make it illegal for corpos to do labour exploitation in this way and then enforce that law for immigrants and native workers alike. Immigration is good. Creating a two-tiered job market is not. If you just end H1Bs, then many of these jobs will move permanently overseas, there won't be a magical moment of restitution for the aggrieved American tech worker. Unionize if you want to actually make things change for the better for all workers in your industry. You can't post your way out of this.
ponector 1y ago
>> don’t try to convince me that a Java developer from India possesses skills that our university graduates don’t. You mentioned it, the skill your graduates don't have: willing to work for lower wages
CodeMage 1y ago
> And don’t try to convince me that a Java developer from India possesses skills that our university graduates don’t. Skills? Not necessarily, but there's something a lot of immigrants possess that your university graduates don't: freedom from the weight of student loans. I'm not from India, so I can't speak for them. Plus, I imagine that the situation in India changed over the years and it's probably not the same as when this trend started. But I can speak for myself and people I know from many other countries, including China. Most of us have had an education that is on par with a lot of American colleges and universities, but without the crushing cost. Get rid of all immigrant workers and the industry will collapse, because your graduates need to pay off a huge debt that immigrants don't have.
- aleph_minus_one 1y ago
  > Most of us have had an education that is on par with a lot of American colleges and universities, but without the crushing cost. > Get rid of all immigrant workers and the industry will collapse, because your graduates need to pay off a huge debt that immigrants don't have. You went to university because you decided (in expectation) the present value [1] of the future earning were worth the college fees and the opportunity cost of getting a university degree. So, don't complain about the debt: by your decision you computed that this decision was worth it. The only thing that you need to complain about is yourself that you did a wrong calculation for such a life-influencing decision of going to college. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Present_value https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Present_value
  - CodeMage 1y ago
    > You went to university [...] > by your decision you computed that this decision was worth it > The only thing that you need to complain about > you did a wrong calculation Is that a general "you" or are you replying directly to me? Because if it's the latter, you need to read what I wrote more carefully. I'm one of those immigrants I wrote about. My education, back where I was born and grew up, was both free and top-notch. The point of my reply was to explain why "if we eliminated all H1B workers, Americans in the IT industry would be at full employment" is a disturbingly naive idea. Speaking of disturbing oversimplifications: > The only thing that you need to complain about is yourself that you did a wrong calculation for such a life-influencing decision of going to college. If you think that life is as simple as that, you either haven't lived very long or were privileged enough to live in a bubble where things are so cut-and-dried black-and-white.

gjsman-1000 1y ago

> And don’t try to convince me that a Java developer from India possesses skills that our university graduates don’t. Everyone defending H1Bs forgets why we even have an economy. America never signed up to be some hegemon that needs to compete with the entire world. America exists for the sake of Americans, not the world, first and foremost. We can help other people after that point. You get revolutions and revolutionary acts when it feels that the opportunity for foreigners and the aristocratic is exceeding opportunity for the normal everyday people born here, and that is a legitimate injustice.

hvb2 1y ago
> America exists for the sake of Americans, not the world, first and foremost. We can help other people after that point. But you do want to sell to all of the world, am I correct? So you basically want the pros and none of the cons? And you also expect the rest of the world to buy an your debt? Because America as a country would be bankrupt instantly if that rest of the world stopped supporting you.
- gjsman-1000 1y ago
  Almost every country short of Liechtenstein would be bankrupt if other countries stopped buying their debt. As such, the argument is not relevant, unless you believe that ethnicity has no correlation to country, and India should welcome Americans just as well.
  - hvb2 1y ago
    > Almost every country short of Liechtenstein would be bankrupt if other countries stopped buying their debt. Sure but not many countries never seem to run a deficit. > and India should welcome Americans just as well. Somehow I've met 10+ Americans who all seem to think you just submit a form and get an H1B... Being a non resident alien is no fun. Being forced to leave the country to renew your visa? Makes sense but there's a certain uneasiness that goes with it every time Switching employers is much harder, because the new one needs to be willing to sponsor The pathway to staying in the US long term is super long. If you are this talented person from India and want to make America your home, getting a green card takes over 12 years... All those years you're essentially in limbo especially with current political circumstances. That's what people are willing to put up with to be granted the ability to live and work in the US. I'm not saying that's unfair and you cannot require such things but don't think it's a walk in the park
  - piva00 1y ago
    > As such, the argument is not relevant, unless you believe that ethnicity has no correlation to country What ethnicity do you think Americans are?
- oytis 1y ago
  Absolutely, US software industry wouldn't be nearly as large as well-paying without (allegedly useless) US domination over the world
MeetingsBrowser 1y ago
> America exists for the sake of Americans Anyone living, working, or otherwise contributing to society in America can become an American. > America exists for the sake of Americans, not the world, first and foremost. ... opportunity for foreigners [...] exceeding opportunity for [...] people born here, and that is a legitimate injustice. That is IMO an un-American statement. America is, in theory, the land of opportunity. Not only for the "right kind of people".
- gjsman-1000 1y ago
  > That is IMO an un-American statement. America is, in theory, the land of opportunity. Not only for the "right kind of people". The people who live here have a right, first and foremost, to opportunities. If they are vocally and statistically proving that opportunities are bad right now, the H1B needs to be pulled for their sake. It can be put back once balance has been achieved. > Anyone living, working, or otherwise contributing to society in America is an American. Absolutely not. If I export my new invention to Europe and it changes society, I am contributing to European society, but I am not European. If I take a visa to Europe and start doing contract work illegally, I am not European.
  - skeeter2020 1y ago
    your stance of "get here first or if someone's already here take what you want from them" doesn't seem that different from the GP you're refuting.
  - estimator7292 1y ago
    Does your stance apply to native Americans or is it exclusively about immigrants?
    - ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
      I had a friend that had a T-shirt with an old photo of a bunch of American Indians (I think Apache), standing with guns and other weapons. They looked rather fierce. It said "Homeland Security: Fighting Terrorism Since 1492".
motbus3 1y ago
Now with AI, cheap labour is overrated and all Those people want is for you to make a contract with openai/meta whatever or to break your business for them to take. There will be no new jobs. The BBB comes with a hidden line saying that no billionaire should get sad for any reason The only people losing the competition is those who cannot afford to pay more anyway that will need to use AI or get out of the market completely.
yatopifo 1y ago
You are mistaken. The US doesn’t exist for the sake of Americans. It exist for corporations and corporations only.
tycho-newman 1y ago
Maybe we should let people work wherever they want? The tech companies will just offshore the jobs they’d otherwise use for visas. India is a cool place. Lots of Americans would do well to live and work there. They’d probably even be a bit happier. But they can’t because of visas. For most of human history, you were free to decamp to greener pastures. Cultural chauvinism still existed and thrived in this more porous world. Why do we accept limitations on our freedom of movement?
- HPsquared 1y ago
  People are moving around a lot faster than before with cheap air travel and modern internet. Some like this new dynamic, others don't. It's an evolving situation.
- oytis 1y ago
  What's the problem with Indian visas? At least on a cursory glance looks straightforward
  - tycho-newman 1y ago
    Nothing. American workers will rarely consider offshoring themselves. Which is a shame.
- ponector 1y ago
  >> India is a cool place. Lots of Americans would do well to live and work there. Would be interesting to see US people to live there on $30k salary.
  - tycho-newman 1y ago
    Lots of Americans live on that right now. It would go further in India.

laidoffamazon 1y ago

Hilarious implication that this visa is a new phenomenon

Our_Benefactors 1y ago
I didn’t see any such implication. What’s new is the sophisticated scams and parallel industries that exist to support falsified H1B petitions. It’s your civic duty to apply to H1B job postings. This is probably 10x more effective than using LinkedIn, which is designed to keep you in a holding pattern indefinitely. https://h1bvisajobs.com/ https://h1bvisajobs.com/

chaostheory 1y ago

If that is the actually the main problem, then the cost of H1Bs are now high enough to economically favor locals.

mikert89 1y ago

The crazy thing is how suppressed this opinion was. You got banned on most websites for bringing this up. I credit free speech on X for bringing h1b visas into the national conversation

HankStallone 1y ago
There's been a major shift just in the last few months. Those of us who have been concerned about this problem for years welcome them to the party, but with a bit of an eye-roll, because it's obvious that the shift wouldn't be happening if it were trucking and farming jobs under assault and not tech jobs.
_fizz_buzz_ 1y ago
Any example? Unless it was completely racist, I feel like a lot of people have been complaining about H1Bs for many years without any problems. Also here on hacker news.

emchammer 1y ago

Take it easy there, Michael Moore, next thing you’ll be asking for universal healthcare.

oytis 1y ago

It's truly amazing how little you need to intrude into the privileges of an already extremely privileged group as US software developers are, to make them go full "immigrats are taking our jobs".

valec 1y ago
well, they are. outsourcing is the bigger problem. just like outsourcing decimated manufacturing jobs, now it's decimating white-collar. i well and truly hope you get fired so you see how bad the market is. no other profession has this number of cruel, judgmental narcissists not looking out for their own kin.

breadwinner 1y ago

H-1B workers at companies such as Google, Meta or Microsoft are not treated any different, they are not taking abuse or being exploited. There may be smaller companies where this is happening though. One of the issues is conflation of IT jobs and High Tech jobs. Those making laws don't understand the difference -- they are all "computer jobs" to them. IT does not require immigrant labor. Companies such as Infosys and Tata don't need to be operating in the US. There are plenty of US workers available to do the job. But High Tech is different. High Tech needs the best in the world, not the best in the US. The US leads the world in tech not because the best ideas were all American but because the best people in the world immigrated to the US. Stopping this will be ruinous to American prosperity. The seminal research paper that kicked off the AI revolution (titled "Attention is all you need") was written by 2 Indians, 1 German, 1 British Canadian, 1 Pole, 1 Ukrainian, and 2 US born people. These people came to America, worked together and changed the world as we know it. Why would we want to stop it? Has this immigration undercut Americans? Far from it. These immigrants are the lifeblood of the tech industry, and their innovations create jobs.

_Rabs_ 1y ago
H-1B's are absolutely exploited. I'd personally testify to the abuses at financial companies. Hearing threats of "If you don't complete this by tomorrow, you can expect to be back in India by next week" From one Indian to another too... It's awful to witness it. Please don't spread misinformation that "They are not taking abuse or being exploited" That is extremely disingenuous.
- breadwinner 1y ago
  Sorry that's untrue. Top companies such as Google, Meta or Microsoft absolutely do not abuse H-1B workers or treat them any different. As I said there may be smaller outfits, or IT shops where this is happening.
  - rybosworld 1y ago
    I've never worked at those companies. But to say that it _never_ happens there is a bit of an absurd thing to say.

dangus 1y ago

There are two types of H1B recipients, the type that you describe (in somewhat discriminatory terms) and the type that the program was built for. The actual geniuses that move to America and stay here to build crazy stuff are also H1B visa holders. We do NOT want to turn those people away. If you don’t like immigrants “taking your jobs” you are definitely not going to like the alternative reality of a brain drain. You aren’t going to like the alternative reality where there aren’t any immigrants starting businesses to hire you. Without immigration there’s no Google or Apple (these weren’t specifically H1B immigrants but still, Sergey Brin and Steve Jobs’ dad were first generation immigrants) Again I must point out that every H1B employee that is here is physically in America buying things from American businesses. Immigrants starting businesses at a higher rate than native born citizens. But I think it’s obvious that the program needs reform. Big companies have been gaming the system and using tricks to abuse it, and they use the visa’s restrictions to trap employees and give them below-market working conditions under the threat of visa revocation. My proposal would be: 1. Make the visa cost more to acquire depending on the amount of employees in the program at a single company. If your company has 10,000 H1B employees your cost to add another one should be a lot higher than a small company with one H1B worker. 2. Make the visa guarantee permanent resident status to the recipient for a time period once they’ve worked for their company for ~90 days. They should have full job mobility just like a citizen so their employer doesn’t use the program as an excuse to pay below-market wages. 3. Provide a real path to citizenship that doesn’t take decades. I think that people in the country who can treat it like a long-term “forever home” will be more beneficial than ones who have plans to go back home eventually.

insane_dreamer 1y ago
We have O1, EB1, EB2 for the "geniuses that move to America and stay here to build crazy stuff". That's not what the majority of H1B is used for.

_fizz_buzz_ 1y ago

I guess we'll see soon if this theory holds. If the 100k per year fee is truly implemented, H1B will be mostly dead.

mhuffman 1y ago
There is a loophole where companies hire H1B-type employees in their offices in another country and then move them to the US offices.

lkey 1y ago

You've identified the problem, but not the solution. We must make it illegal for corpos to do labour exploitation in this way and then enforce that law for immigrants and native workers alike. Immigration is good. Creating a two-tiered job market is not. If you just end H1Bs, then many of these jobs will move permanently overseas, there won't be a magical moment of restitution for the aggrieved American tech worker. Unionize if you want to actually make things change for the better for all workers in your industry. You can't post your way out of this.

ponector 1y ago

>> don’t try to convince me that a Java developer from India possesses skills that our university graduates don’t. You mentioned it, the skill your graduates don't have: willing to work for lower wages

CodeMage 1y ago

> And don’t try to convince me that a Java developer from India possesses skills that our university graduates don’t. Skills? Not necessarily, but there's something a lot of immigrants possess that your university graduates don't: freedom from the weight of student loans. I'm not from India, so I can't speak for them. Plus, I imagine that the situation in India changed over the years and it's probably not the same as when this trend started. But I can speak for myself and people I know from many other countries, including China. Most of us have had an education that is on par with a lot of American colleges and universities, but without the crushing cost. Get rid of all immigrant workers and the industry will collapse, because your graduates need to pay off a huge debt that immigrants don't have.

aleph_minus_one 1y ago
> Most of us have had an education that is on par with a lot of American colleges and universities, but without the crushing cost. > Get rid of all immigrant workers and the industry will collapse, because your graduates need to pay off a huge debt that immigrants don't have. You went to university because you decided (in expectation) the present value [1] of the future earning were worth the college fees and the opportunity cost of getting a university degree. So, don't complain about the debt: by your decision you computed that this decision was worth it. The only thing that you need to complain about is yourself that you did a wrong calculation for such a life-influencing decision of going to college. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Present_value https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Present_value
- CodeMage 1y ago
  > You went to university [...] > by your decision you computed that this decision was worth it > The only thing that you need to complain about > you did a wrong calculation Is that a general "you" or are you replying directly to me? Because if it's the latter, you need to read what I wrote more carefully. I'm one of those immigrants I wrote about. My education, back where I was born and grew up, was both free and top-notch. The point of my reply was to explain why "if we eliminated all H1B workers, Americans in the IT industry would be at full employment" is a disturbingly naive idea. Speaking of disturbing oversimplifications: > The only thing that you need to complain about is yourself that you did a wrong calculation for such a life-influencing decision of going to college. If you think that life is as simple as that, you either haven't lived very long or were privileged enough to live in a bubble where things are so cut-and-dried black-and-white.