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> F-Droid's curation saved me at least once when I wanted to upgrade my Simple™ apps and couldn't find them in F-Droid anymore, which led me to learn that Simpl

> F-Droid's curation saved me at least once when I wanted to upgrade my Simple™ apps and couldn't find them in F-Droid anymore, which led me to learn that SimpleMobileTools was sold to a company that closed sourced the apps[1] and that there's a free fork called Fossify[2]. > Had I installed these through Google Play, they wouldn't have cared about this particular change and I would've gotten whatever random upgrades the new owners pushed. sheesh. I've spent my whole mobile device life on iOS and am just now learning an Android device. While I feel I have more control over the finer details of my personal privacy and security, this ecosystem is a total minefield if you care about avoiding spyware and malware. I'm glad I trusted my instincts and only installed F-Droid first before any apps from the Play Store. Just now found the Isolation app so I can create a Work Profile and separate personal life from the life that the relentless data vacuums are constantly trying to pull from the simplest apps these days. Neither mobile OS is perfect, but I feel like I was correct about Apple having the user's personal privacy still much more of a priority than Google. There was never any question if those were the two options, IMO. But it does seems like now, finally, Android might be ready to deploy as a mobile operating system for the public. I'm fairly certain that this Android ecosystem that's used its users for so long as guinea pigs (not just Android, but the full unrefined and frankly unsophisticated media sphere as a whole that's been figuring out how to effectively work on us) has harmed the last generation or two beyond repair. This became all too clear when the first thing I did on my first Android device a few weeks ago was install an offline keyboard from devs with my privacy interests in mind. Spent a few minutes thinking about what it would have been like living with this shitty keyboard system on iOS and realized that honestly, I am lucky that I stuck with iOS through all of this and feel like my mental health is much better than it would have been had I been fighting a malware-riddled Android device this whole time. edit: I'm not saying you shouldn't use Android or that it's a bad idea, I do think that it is solid enough now (and maybe has been for a while, I don't know) that I can safely protect myself after learning. But ask yourself if all Android users would take the time to properly learn? What about kids?

vasco 1y ago
Billions of people use android phones without malware, you are exagerating slightly.
- array_key_first 1y ago
  Depends on your definition of malware. If you consider adware to be malware, which I personally do, then I would estimate close to zero Android phones are operating without malware.
- jackstraw42 1y ago
  I don't really see how you can guarantee your Android phone doesn't have malware, I feel like you may be exaggerating here. I also don't mind the downvote, but if you would please tell me how you are able to guarantee your Android phone doesn't have malware, please tell me instead of hiding behind a downvote. Otherwise my solution is don't use an Android device. wow, downvotes on all three comments! thanks, stranger.
  - vasco 1y ago
    I didn't downvote you, and it's against the rules to focus on the voting anyway.
    - jackstraw42 1y ago
      Ok, thanks for saying that I guess. FYI I wasn't talking directly to you on the second line.
  - user_7832 1y ago
    > I don't really see how you can guarantee your Android phone doesn't have malware, I feel like you may be exaggerating here. Can you do it on an iPhone? (You can't.) Between android and ios, which platform is considered more secure or safer? It's not easy to find out directly, but bug bounty programs can be used as a heuristic. Guess which one it is, after both being the same for a long time? (It's android). You can check out https://www.wired.com/story/android-zero-day-more-than-ios-zerodium/ https://www.wired.com/story/android-zero-day-more-than-ios-z... and https://cyberscoop.com/ios-zero-day-zerodium-high-supply/ https://cyberscoop.com/ios-zero-day-zerodium-high-supply/ > I also don't mind the downvote, but if you would please tell me how you are able to guarantee your Android phone doesn't have malware, please tell me instead of hiding behind a downvote. Otherwise my solution is don't use an Android device. The same way you guarantee it on any other OS, be it windows or macos or linux. You do your best, don't download sketchy apps, and don't be a political figure. Of course that doesn't guarantee it, just makes it 99% likely. > Otherwise my solution is don't use an Android device. Do you think you can guarantee this on an iPhone? May I ask you how you are able to guarantee this on iOS? (I haven't downvoted you)
stefan_ 1y ago
Odd take. On iOS there is no F-Droid so your options for simple apps is the same ad riddled “in app purchases” crap it is on GPlay.
- jackstraw42 1y ago
  Apple has made policy changes and changes to the app store to make it clearer which apps to avoid. Apple really cares about my privacy, or they tell me they do and I believe them. I think they do because they know how important brand loyalty is to their customers. It's pretty much the thing Apple lives on, never losing the customer's trust. Google clearly leaves it more or less up to nature.
  - shakna 1y ago
    And yet, SparkCat ran around on the iOS store for at least a year. [0] [0] https://www.tomsguide.com/computing/malware-adware/malicious-iphone-apps-are-spreading-screenshot-reading-malware-on-the-apple-app-store-how-to-stay-safe https://www.tomsguide.com/computing/malware-adware/malicious...
    - jackstraw42 1y ago
      I'm sure there are lots more, too. There's no way Apple kept a complete hold on this.
  - UnreachableCode 1y ago
    >Apple really cares about my privacy, or they tell me they do and I believe them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM
    - jackstraw42 1y ago
      I am aware. I've been around a while. I'm not worried about nation-state surveillance. What I am worried about is all the keyloggers on kids' Android phones these days, since I've seen a shady game company or two in my day.
pxoe 1y ago
Would you even find out if an app has been sold to another company on iOS app store? It's confusing to see all of that diatribe when it doesn't even do much (if anything it almost lulls you into a false sense of security), and you just have less options to choose from to get around being locked out of using your device for apps you want.
- jackstraw42 1y ago
  > Would you even find out if an app has been sold to another company on iOS app store? On this particular issue, no. But I also make a habit of not leaving old apps that I don't use lingering around on my phone. And I'm pretty sure I know all of those haven't been bought out by a data predator, apart from 23andme. I just trust what Apple has done in other areas for my personal privacy and security, and I know they have insanely high and probably unreasonable standards for their app stores. and I don't install obviously predatory garbage apps. I feel like I could have only achieved this level of confidence in my mobile device with iOS. And to be clear that's just an opinion :)
  - pxoe 1y ago
    Insane and unreasonable standards sounds right, but I'm not sure about privacy and security all that much. It's just naive to assume something is totally malware free, and they're not actually disincentivized from just keeping some more subtle scammy apps around if they just generate them 30% fee revenue anyway. There's a bit of magical thinking that goes into assuming just how "good" they are at it, when they literally just don't even do some of those vaguely insinuated things. (to me, if some os is unable to have both freedom of installing apps/sideloading and security (with help of malware checking and other measures that keep bad stuff away), and only able to achieve that "security" only by completely locking down what apps can be run and how apps are obtained, it seems like either a failure to accomplish actual security there, or rather just a pretense to keep a platform locked down.)
    - jackstraw42 1y ago
      That's fair. Unfortunately, like with the national politics here, we have two shitty options.
port11 1y ago
We use Nara to track our baby's food intake and sleep. A couple of months ago I noticed Little Snitch complaining about the app making new connections to malware domains. Thankfully I can run the app on macOS and noticed it. When confronted with how this violated their Privay Policy, they gave a condescending reply. When I contacted Apple about this new update to the app, they ignored my report. So… no, we're not safer on iOS. Perhaps the barrier to entry is a bit higher to discourage some low-hanging fruit, but Apple does very little for the 30% commission it takes.
- pydry 1y ago
  They mean safer from apps like NewPipe which threaten their margins by giving users their attention back.
  - Imustaskforhelp 1y ago
    we must think of the shareholders!!! No, how can you! I want to give billionaires more profits that would most likely just be a number to them while selling myself for them, Noo. (satirical post)
  - jackstraw42 1y ago
    Safer from apps that do insane but legal data collection is what I am worried about. Why would a foreign adversary need a hacking team when they can just buy what they need from an American company built to sell detailed personal information on Americans using shitty malware-riddled products?
  - _blk 1y ago
    It's not like they're the only bullies in town (@bigG: try to remember "do no evil" and you were an actually cool tech company rather worth applying to, worth having on your resume). I paid for Prime Video to remove ads only to find that now they'll play skipable ads again at the start of a movie and this time I don't even have the option of paying again.. I'm not against big profits, and I'm definitely not in favor of more regulation to attempt to fix it but I am against mico-maximization of profit with obviously consumer-unfriendly behavior. The way to fix it, IMHO, is to start over with yet another small guy that comes in and does it right. Angel Studios is doing pretty good and although the content selection is much more limited, the overall vibe is great, feels safe to leave children around for more than 2 minutes (unlike youtube kids).
lukan 1y ago
"What about kids?" They usually have someone more mature watching over them as there are also other dangers in life except malware on their phones. (Also, when I was a kid there was no one to explain me the internet, so I learned on my own and understood it better then those responsible for me. But it was a different internet back then. )
- Imustaskforhelp 1y ago
  Don't know about a mature but I wanted to play pokemon yellow on my mum's phone and I was in 2nd grade iirc and my brother just told me to search pokemon yellow rom myself and learn how to download/pirate it. He didn't help me at all, even though. he had pirated it earlier. Made me learn pirating which went into more and more technical untill I think nowadays I dabble in playing pirated games in linux and linux scripting and just general coding. There was no mature watching over me. I was downloading everything dude, heck I had once downloaded hollow knight as an apk to play it and I am pretty sure that it was a malware which i had quickly deleted as it wasn't working but now yes we've even migrated over from the phone. So in a way my mature watching over me was saying, Idk learn it yourself, fuck around and find out. I kinda think that grapheneos would be really nice for protecting your phone from something like malware from what I've heard.
  - jackstraw42 1y ago
    downloading ROMs helped me learn how to do things the right way too. but even back then those kinds of places were filled with traps, remember pop-ups and pop-under ads? from that point forward, learning how to safely download ROMs and whatever else I wanted to do on the internet just felt natural. What worries me though is that maybe we weren't the norm, maybe we were the exceptions.
    - Imustaskforhelp 1y ago
      r/piracy was something that I discovered really late but I am glad I am. I recommend it to every of my friend who comes to me begging me to download X or Y or pirate it. I remember those links where you had to go through the entire article and it would give a (1 of 2) and you have to do that again and again for them to finally get to the final download. Yes downloading them were indeed a hassle but idk i guess those feelings are really compensated by me playing pokemon, like I genuinely have forgotten some of those popups but I do know that they were really shitty. here's what I would recommend anybody now: r/piracy is your best friend, try to read it and prefer to get the goated version of things use brave browser if you don't want ads/ librewolf/firefox with ublock on pc. I am not advocating piracy because well, I just can't pay for products and my frugal living doesn't really find it to have peace. I would much rather donate to them directly with a thank you message but maybe that's my ideal. The only game I was thinking to buy was silksong but my brother has a ps5 and he would've had to download it seperately and I wanted to split even 20$ lol. I wanted to buy silksong as a way of saying thank you to the devs for finally making things cheap enough and making me feel like my money is worth it even if I am frugal y'know. I feel like everyone iscammed by 70$ games bro, I am never paying them. One time, idk what i downloaded, but it was prob malware in the sense that even if no app is running/removed that app, it would still open up browser and open up some link automatically sometimes.. And pop ups on websites were a nightmare to dodge, pop under ads yeah. I remember it all now. it used to take me definitely 15 minutes or more to download a rom but that was compensated by the hours I used to play bro. I love pokemon johto with my ampharos of level 75, it used to one shot everything except rock/steel. Electric was goated in johto. And I had a water type pokemon too/there was one fighting type move that I taught my ampharos. I think I even defeated red from gen 1 ( I am talking about the actual gen 2 pixelated game and not the next silver games, I think it was the crystal or silver or gold, I am not sure mareep was only available to play in one of these games and dude mareep is goated and makes me remember my childhood)
d3Xt3r 1y ago
The topic of kids is a whole another debate - whether or not it is wise to give them an Internet-connected device - beause the same general concerns regarding the Internet exist on iOS as well. Regardless, if I had to give them a device, it'll definitely be a Linux-based one.

vasco 1y ago

Billions of people use android phones without malware, you are exagerating slightly.

array_key_first 1y ago
Depends on your definition of malware. If you consider adware to be malware, which I personally do, then I would estimate close to zero Android phones are operating without malware.
jackstraw42 1y ago
I don't really see how you can guarantee your Android phone doesn't have malware, I feel like you may be exaggerating here. I also don't mind the downvote, but if you would please tell me how you are able to guarantee your Android phone doesn't have malware, please tell me instead of hiding behind a downvote. Otherwise my solution is don't use an Android device. wow, downvotes on all three comments! thanks, stranger.
- vasco 1y ago
  I didn't downvote you, and it's against the rules to focus on the voting anyway.
  - jackstraw42 1y ago
    Ok, thanks for saying that I guess. FYI I wasn't talking directly to you on the second line.
- user_7832 1y ago
  > I don't really see how you can guarantee your Android phone doesn't have malware, I feel like you may be exaggerating here. Can you do it on an iPhone? (You can't.) Between android and ios, which platform is considered more secure or safer? It's not easy to find out directly, but bug bounty programs can be used as a heuristic. Guess which one it is, after both being the same for a long time? (It's android). You can check out https://www.wired.com/story/android-zero-day-more-than-ios-zerodium/ https://www.wired.com/story/android-zero-day-more-than-ios-z... and https://cyberscoop.com/ios-zero-day-zerodium-high-supply/ https://cyberscoop.com/ios-zero-day-zerodium-high-supply/ > I also don't mind the downvote, but if you would please tell me how you are able to guarantee your Android phone doesn't have malware, please tell me instead of hiding behind a downvote. Otherwise my solution is don't use an Android device. The same way you guarantee it on any other OS, be it windows or macos or linux. You do your best, don't download sketchy apps, and don't be a political figure. Of course that doesn't guarantee it, just makes it 99% likely. > Otherwise my solution is don't use an Android device. Do you think you can guarantee this on an iPhone? May I ask you how you are able to guarantee this on iOS? (I haven't downvoted you)

stefan_ 1y ago

Odd take. On iOS there is no F-Droid so your options for simple apps is the same ad riddled “in app purchases” crap it is on GPlay.

jackstraw42 1y ago
Apple has made policy changes and changes to the app store to make it clearer which apps to avoid. Apple really cares about my privacy, or they tell me they do and I believe them. I think they do because they know how important brand loyalty is to their customers. It's pretty much the thing Apple lives on, never losing the customer's trust. Google clearly leaves it more or less up to nature.
- shakna 1y ago
  And yet, SparkCat ran around on the iOS store for at least a year. [0] [0] https://www.tomsguide.com/computing/malware-adware/malicious-iphone-apps-are-spreading-screenshot-reading-malware-on-the-apple-app-store-how-to-stay-safe https://www.tomsguide.com/computing/malware-adware/malicious...
  - jackstraw42 1y ago
    I'm sure there are lots more, too. There's no way Apple kept a complete hold on this.
- UnreachableCode 1y ago
  >Apple really cares about my privacy, or they tell me they do and I believe them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM
  - jackstraw42 1y ago
    I am aware. I've been around a while. I'm not worried about nation-state surveillance. What I am worried about is all the keyloggers on kids' Android phones these days, since I've seen a shady game company or two in my day.

pxoe 1y ago

Would you even find out if an app has been sold to another company on iOS app store? It's confusing to see all of that diatribe when it doesn't even do much (if anything it almost lulls you into a false sense of security), and you just have less options to choose from to get around being locked out of using your device for apps you want.

jackstraw42 1y ago
> Would you even find out if an app has been sold to another company on iOS app store? On this particular issue, no. But I also make a habit of not leaving old apps that I don't use lingering around on my phone. And I'm pretty sure I know all of those haven't been bought out by a data predator, apart from 23andme. I just trust what Apple has done in other areas for my personal privacy and security, and I know they have insanely high and probably unreasonable standards for their app stores. and I don't install obviously predatory garbage apps. I feel like I could have only achieved this level of confidence in my mobile device with iOS. And to be clear that's just an opinion :)
- pxoe 1y ago
  Insane and unreasonable standards sounds right, but I'm not sure about privacy and security all that much. It's just naive to assume something is totally malware free, and they're not actually disincentivized from just keeping some more subtle scammy apps around if they just generate them 30% fee revenue anyway. There's a bit of magical thinking that goes into assuming just how "good" they are at it, when they literally just don't even do some of those vaguely insinuated things. (to me, if some os is unable to have both freedom of installing apps/sideloading and security (with help of malware checking and other measures that keep bad stuff away), and only able to achieve that "security" only by completely locking down what apps can be run and how apps are obtained, it seems like either a failure to accomplish actual security there, or rather just a pretense to keep a platform locked down.)
  - jackstraw42 1y ago
    That's fair. Unfortunately, like with the national politics here, we have two shitty options.

port11 1y ago

We use Nara to track our baby's food intake and sleep. A couple of months ago I noticed Little Snitch complaining about the app making new connections to malware domains. Thankfully I can run the app on macOS and noticed it. When confronted with how this violated their Privay Policy, they gave a condescending reply. When I contacted Apple about this new update to the app, they ignored my report. So… no, we're not safer on iOS. Perhaps the barrier to entry is a bit higher to discourage some low-hanging fruit, but Apple does very little for the 30% commission it takes.

pydry 1y ago
They mean safer from apps like NewPipe which threaten their margins by giving users their attention back.
- Imustaskforhelp 1y ago
  we must think of the shareholders!!! No, how can you! I want to give billionaires more profits that would most likely just be a number to them while selling myself for them, Noo. (satirical post)
- jackstraw42 1y ago
  Safer from apps that do insane but legal data collection is what I am worried about. Why would a foreign adversary need a hacking team when they can just buy what they need from an American company built to sell detailed personal information on Americans using shitty malware-riddled products?
- _blk 1y ago
  It's not like they're the only bullies in town (@bigG: try to remember "do no evil" and you were an actually cool tech company rather worth applying to, worth having on your resume). I paid for Prime Video to remove ads only to find that now they'll play skipable ads again at the start of a movie and this time I don't even have the option of paying again.. I'm not against big profits, and I'm definitely not in favor of more regulation to attempt to fix it but I am against mico-maximization of profit with obviously consumer-unfriendly behavior. The way to fix it, IMHO, is to start over with yet another small guy that comes in and does it right. Angel Studios is doing pretty good and although the content selection is much more limited, the overall vibe is great, feels safe to leave children around for more than 2 minutes (unlike youtube kids).

lukan 1y ago

"What about kids?" They usually have someone more mature watching over them as there are also other dangers in life except malware on their phones. (Also, when I was a kid there was no one to explain me the internet, so I learned on my own and understood it better then those responsible for me. But it was a different internet back then. )

Imustaskforhelp 1y ago
Don't know about a mature but I wanted to play pokemon yellow on my mum's phone and I was in 2nd grade iirc and my brother just told me to search pokemon yellow rom myself and learn how to download/pirate it. He didn't help me at all, even though. he had pirated it earlier. Made me learn pirating which went into more and more technical untill I think nowadays I dabble in playing pirated games in linux and linux scripting and just general coding. There was no mature watching over me. I was downloading everything dude, heck I had once downloaded hollow knight as an apk to play it and I am pretty sure that it was a malware which i had quickly deleted as it wasn't working but now yes we've even migrated over from the phone. So in a way my mature watching over me was saying, Idk learn it yourself, fuck around and find out. I kinda think that grapheneos would be really nice for protecting your phone from something like malware from what I've heard.
- jackstraw42 1y ago
  downloading ROMs helped me learn how to do things the right way too. but even back then those kinds of places were filled with traps, remember pop-ups and pop-under ads? from that point forward, learning how to safely download ROMs and whatever else I wanted to do on the internet just felt natural. What worries me though is that maybe we weren't the norm, maybe we were the exceptions.
  - Imustaskforhelp 1y ago
    r/piracy was something that I discovered really late but I am glad I am. I recommend it to every of my friend who comes to me begging me to download X or Y or pirate it. I remember those links where you had to go through the entire article and it would give a (1 of 2) and you have to do that again and again for them to finally get to the final download. Yes downloading them were indeed a hassle but idk i guess those feelings are really compensated by me playing pokemon, like I genuinely have forgotten some of those popups but I do know that they were really shitty. here's what I would recommend anybody now: r/piracy is your best friend, try to read it and prefer to get the goated version of things use brave browser if you don't want ads/ librewolf/firefox with ublock on pc. I am not advocating piracy because well, I just can't pay for products and my frugal living doesn't really find it to have peace. I would much rather donate to them directly with a thank you message but maybe that's my ideal. The only game I was thinking to buy was silksong but my brother has a ps5 and he would've had to download it seperately and I wanted to split even 20$ lol. I wanted to buy silksong as a way of saying thank you to the devs for finally making things cheap enough and making me feel like my money is worth it even if I am frugal y'know. I feel like everyone iscammed by 70$ games bro, I am never paying them. One time, idk what i downloaded, but it was prob malware in the sense that even if no app is running/removed that app, it would still open up browser and open up some link automatically sometimes.. And pop ups on websites were a nightmare to dodge, pop under ads yeah. I remember it all now. it used to take me definitely 15 minutes or more to download a rom but that was compensated by the hours I used to play bro. I love pokemon johto with my ampharos of level 75, it used to one shot everything except rock/steel. Electric was goated in johto. And I had a water type pokemon too/there was one fighting type move that I taught my ampharos. I think I even defeated red from gen 1 ( I am talking about the actual gen 2 pixelated game and not the next silver games, I think it was the crystal or silver or gold, I am not sure mareep was only available to play in one of these games and dude mareep is goated and makes me remember my childhood)

d3Xt3r 1y ago

The topic of kids is a whole another debate - whether or not it is wise to give them an Internet-connected device - beause the same general concerns regarding the Internet exist on iOS as well. Regardless, if I had to give them a device, it'll definitely be a Linux-based one.