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Is influencing is just speech, why have a problem with that? What makes it different from groups of activists doing the same thing within a country? It’s all pr

Is influencing is just speech, why have a problem with that? What makes it different from groups of activists doing the same thing within a country? It’s all propaganda to some, or free speech to others. I agree it’s an “influence war” but disagree that a foreign source changes things at a basic level - even from within the same country, brigading and bot like voting or comments, corrupts the process of politics. So I disagree about the choice to violate free speech principles. But do you see it differently? Do you agree with the part about activists behaving similarly?

tomschwiha 1y ago
Free speech ends when it conflicts with the law or the rights of others - for example, the right to make a free voting decision. Spreading fake news or knowingly lying is not free speech, but rather an abuse of the term.
- u8080 1y ago
  >Free speech ends when it conflicts with the law This is exactly what happens under totalitarian governments - status quo people in power erode freedoms by tweaking laws.
- psychoslave 1y ago
  Turning it the other way around makes more sense: freedom of one starts where it confirms those of others.
sleepyguy 1y ago
Did you not see the weapons caches and the Russian agents arrested in Moldova? During the Romanian election, the opposition leader — a TikTok star — was reportedly found with a massive cache of weapons and ammunition in his personal residence. This kind of activity is happening across Europe. Russia has no limit to the lengths it will go to meddle in other countries’ politics. They create sabotage groups, carry out assassinations, and more. This isn’t about free speech — it’s about taking over governments. Just look at what happened in Georgia with the Dream Party. It's unbelievable how ill informed or outright ignorant folks are about what Russia is trying to do.
- jacquesm 1y ago
  Or maybe they're part of the problem rather than ill informed or ignorant. I definitely would not rule that out. It's a fine line between malice and high degrees of incompetence or stupidity. Sometimes the latter two are just fig leaves for the former.

tomschwiha 1y ago

Free speech ends when it conflicts with the law or the rights of others - for example, the right to make a free voting decision. Spreading fake news or knowingly lying is not free speech, but rather an abuse of the term.

u8080 1y ago
>Free speech ends when it conflicts with the law This is exactly what happens under totalitarian governments - status quo people in power erode freedoms by tweaking laws.
psychoslave 1y ago
Turning it the other way around makes more sense: freedom of one starts where it confirms those of others.

sleepyguy 1y ago

Did you not see the weapons caches and the Russian agents arrested in Moldova? During the Romanian election, the opposition leader — a TikTok star — was reportedly found with a massive cache of weapons and ammunition in his personal residence. This kind of activity is happening across Europe. Russia has no limit to the lengths it will go to meddle in other countries’ politics. They create sabotage groups, carry out assassinations, and more. This isn’t about free speech — it’s about taking over governments. Just look at what happened in Georgia with the Dream Party. It's unbelievable how ill informed or outright ignorant folks are about what Russia is trying to do.

jacquesm 1y ago
Or maybe they're part of the problem rather than ill informed or ignorant. I definitely would not rule that out. It's a fine line between malice and high degrees of incompetence or stupidity. Sometimes the latter two are just fig leaves for the former.