4 ms·

I live in a country (Austria) with at this point more than 20 years of a sort of digital ID. I’m really not quite sure how something as simple as authenticatin

I live in a country (Austria) with at this point more than 20 years of a sort of digital ID. I’m really not quite sure how something as simple as authenticating as a citizen to access governmental services has become so controversial.

majormajor 1y ago
Some fairly unusual (compared to most of Christianity practiced globally) Biblical interpretations widely popularized in the past 100 years have a lot to do with it in the US. HN is typically more coming from a libertarian-anti-tracking bent but the larger popular US opposition to standardized federal IDs is rooted in "mark of the beast" stuff.
- QQ00 1y ago
  curious what mark of the beast has to do with a federal ID? I always thought the opposition majority because it's not something in the constitution to be a centralized by the federal government and it was left for the state to handle.
  - ls612 1y ago
    I think RFID chips were what was actually being opposed by these religious fundamentalists but idk why they saw that as a satanic mark.
  - majormajor 1y ago
    Just google "is real ID the mark of the beast" or "is social security number the mark of the beast" like I did above. The premillenial dispensationalism theory is widespread in southern evangelical churches in the US, with big sales of associated media. The association is "verse says a mark will be required and a number of the beast is mentioned" -> "these are numbers assigned by the government required for commerce" -> "this is the mark." The language of the apocalopytic verses is flowery enough that people pick and choose which parts they take literally, so for a while it wasn't seen as necessarily an injection (or you could also believe that eventually you'd have to get a SSN tattoo, say).
- hn-ifs 1y ago
  Can you elaborate? What does IDs have to do with religion/Christianity?
  - pheggs 1y ago
    Unfortunately they also passed a law for age checks in order "to protect children", which is supposed to block porn unless you show your E-ID. While a referendum was initialized it sadly didn't gain enough media attention to actually make it to a vote.
  - majormajor 1y ago
    https://www.dailyjournal.com/articles/381327-cash-for-christians-avoiding-the-mark-of-the-beast https://www.dailyjournal.com/articles/381327-cash-for-christ... https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2014/07/16/social-security-number-may-be-mark-of-the-beast-but-that-will-not-save-your-job/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2014/07/16/social-... https://www.faithfamilyfit.org/post/is-the-real-id-act-a-gateway-to-the-mark-of-the-beast-a-christian-take-on-digital-control https://www.faithfamilyfit.org/post/is-the-real-id-act-a-gat... Easy to google for more, from varying levels of fringy-looking websites, but the "numerical ID == mark of the beast" fear is common evangelical American doctrine of the same source that saw these books sell 65 million copies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_Behind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_Behind - they went digital with an injected chip, which is one of the things the Covid-19 vaccine sparked echoes of
yunohn 1y ago
Same in the Netherlands with DigiID and Sweden with BankID.
bootsmann 1y ago
It's not just government services (such credentials already exist but its a hodgepodge of self-rolled services for each agency). This ID will generally be equal to the real ID so it will be used to verify citizenship to employers, banks and even the store you order alcohol from. You can even use it to prove that you're of age to the barman irl.
- einarfd 1y ago
  In my opinion the Norwegian variant of this, is an important part on making it easier to switch things like banking or insurance provider. Without BankID I think the competition between these type of providers would be even worse.

majormajor 1y ago

Some fairly unusual (compared to most of Christianity practiced globally) Biblical interpretations widely popularized in the past 100 years have a lot to do with it in the US. HN is typically more coming from a libertarian-anti-tracking bent but the larger popular US opposition to standardized federal IDs is rooted in "mark of the beast" stuff.

QQ00 1y ago
curious what mark of the beast has to do with a federal ID? I always thought the opposition majority because it's not something in the constitution to be a centralized by the federal government and it was left for the state to handle.
- ls612 1y ago
  I think RFID chips were what was actually being opposed by these religious fundamentalists but idk why they saw that as a satanic mark.
- majormajor 1y ago
  Just google "is real ID the mark of the beast" or "is social security number the mark of the beast" like I did above. The premillenial dispensationalism theory is widespread in southern evangelical churches in the US, with big sales of associated media. The association is "verse says a mark will be required and a number of the beast is mentioned" -> "these are numbers assigned by the government required for commerce" -> "this is the mark." The language of the apocalopytic verses is flowery enough that people pick and choose which parts they take literally, so for a while it wasn't seen as necessarily an injection (or you could also believe that eventually you'd have to get a SSN tattoo, say).
hn-ifs 1y ago
Can you elaborate? What does IDs have to do with religion/Christianity?
- pheggs 1y ago
  Unfortunately they also passed a law for age checks in order "to protect children", which is supposed to block porn unless you show your E-ID. While a referendum was initialized it sadly didn't gain enough media attention to actually make it to a vote.
- majormajor 1y ago
  https://www.dailyjournal.com/articles/381327-cash-for-christians-avoiding-the-mark-of-the-beast https://www.dailyjournal.com/articles/381327-cash-for-christ... https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2014/07/16/social-security-number-may-be-mark-of-the-beast-but-that-will-not-save-your-job/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2014/07/16/social-... https://www.faithfamilyfit.org/post/is-the-real-id-act-a-gateway-to-the-mark-of-the-beast-a-christian-take-on-digital-control https://www.faithfamilyfit.org/post/is-the-real-id-act-a-gat... Easy to google for more, from varying levels of fringy-looking websites, but the "numerical ID == mark of the beast" fear is common evangelical American doctrine of the same source that saw these books sell 65 million copies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_Behind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_Behind - they went digital with an injected chip, which is one of the things the Covid-19 vaccine sparked echoes of

yunohn 1y ago

Same in the Netherlands with DigiID and Sweden with BankID.

bootsmann 1y ago

It's not just government services (such credentials already exist but its a hodgepodge of self-rolled services for each agency). This ID will generally be equal to the real ID so it will be used to verify citizenship to employers, banks and even the store you order alcohol from. You can even use it to prove that you're of age to the barman irl.

einarfd 1y ago
In my opinion the Norwegian variant of this, is an important part on making it easier to switch things like banking or insurance provider. Without BankID I think the competition between these type of providers would be even worse.