3 ms·

Unlike the proposed UK digital ID (which is not a "card"), this one is optional. Nobody is being forced to buy a smartphone and accept Apple or Google's terms o

by mrob 1y ago

Unlike the proposed UK digital ID (which is not a "card"), this one is optional. Nobody is being forced to buy a smartphone and accept Apple or Google's terms of service.

crimsoneer 1y ago
But the Swiss already have a unique digital identifier for everyone living and working in Switzerland (your AVS number I think?) so it's really not optional, and is the primary purpose of the new UK id. The actual application itself is much of a muchness. Also, the UK gov has already said there will be solutions for old people/time travellers/the Amish etc without phones. Nobody is going to force anybody to buy a phone.
- mrob 1y ago
  AFAIK, the UK gov has only said there will be solutions for people unable to use a phone, not people unwilling to use a phone.
  - crimsoneer 1y ago
    " As part of our consultation, we will be making sure the scheme is inclusive by considering: - physical alternatives are available for those without smartphones " From https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/digital-id-scheme-explainer/digital-id-scheme-explainer?utm_source=chatgpt.com#how-we-will-ensure-it-is-available-to-everyone https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/digital-id-scheme...
- kgwgk 1y ago
  >the Swiss already have a unique digital identifier Digital as in being a sequence of thirteen digits?
pheggs 1y ago
Define optional? There will be new checks introduced online where you can only enter if you have an E-ID. Companies do have to accept a physical card as well, but only if you appear physically at the companies doors. Otherwise, that statement was kind of deceptive in my opinion because there will be a lot of pressure to get one. They also decided to make it free, which shows they probably want to achieve a high adoption.
- mrob 1y ago
  Optional meaning you have the choice of using the existing physical ID. I don't see how this is deceptive. "A lot of pressure" is not the same as being unable to legally work without the digital ID.
  - pheggs 1y ago
    Because they did advertise it in a way to make people believe they could still do their things online without an E-ID, which will not be the case. It's not optional online.
    - dbrgn 1y ago
      Companies can already request and will still be able to request a PDF scan of your ID. Or worse, video ident through a private third party. This is the status quo for ordering alcohol online, or if you want to open a bank account. The new E-ID based on SSI (self-sovereign identity) is so much better than the status quo from a real-world privacy perspective towards companies that must verify your identity or age.
      - pheggs 1y ago
        > This is the status quo for ordering alcohol online, or if you want to open a bank account. I just ordered alcohol yesterday and they only checked it up on delivery. There's no obligation to check it online. > The new E-ID based on SSI (self-sovereign identity) is so much better than the status quo from a real-world privacy perspective towards companies that must verify your identity or age. While I agree it's better than scanning your documents, it probably will become more popular since it's easier to check and integrate. That will in my opinion become a net negative for privacy
        dbrgn 1y ago
        Fair, this may be a legal option for ordering alcohol. I really don't see the pure cryptographic hash "is older than 18y" as a big privacy issue though, as long as it is properly salted, does not provide other information on my identity and is unlinkable (i.e. multiple such signed claims are different). The last time I opened an account for a financial service, as well as when creating an account with a service for digital document signatures, I had to do a video ident process with a private third party company. There was no other option, and I felt quite uneasy about it. I would have preferred the E-ID by far in both cases. Both companies will inevitably store information about me to provide their service, independently of the identity verification. That is legitimate and inevitable for their service. That other, third party company storing a video of me holding my ID and my face into the camera is now not inevitable anymore.

by mrob 1y ago

Unlike the proposed UK digital ID (which is not a "card"), this one is optional. Nobody is being forced to buy a smartphone and accept Apple or Google's terms of service.

crimsoneer 1y ago

But the Swiss already have a unique digital identifier for everyone living and working in Switzerland (your AVS number I think?) so it's really not optional, and is the primary purpose of the new UK id. The actual application itself is much of a muchness. Also, the UK gov has already said there will be solutions for old people/time travellers/the Amish etc without phones. Nobody is going to force anybody to buy a phone.

mrob 1y ago
AFAIK, the UK gov has only said there will be solutions for people unable to use a phone, not people unwilling to use a phone.
- crimsoneer 1y ago
  " As part of our consultation, we will be making sure the scheme is inclusive by considering: - physical alternatives are available for those without smartphones " From https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/digital-id-scheme-explainer/digital-id-scheme-explainer?utm_source=chatgpt.com#how-we-will-ensure-it-is-available-to-everyone https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/digital-id-scheme...
kgwgk 1y ago
>the Swiss already have a unique digital identifier Digital as in being a sequence of thirteen digits?

pheggs 1y ago

Define optional? There will be new checks introduced online where you can only enter if you have an E-ID. Companies do have to accept a physical card as well, but only if you appear physically at the companies doors. Otherwise, that statement was kind of deceptive in my opinion because there will be a lot of pressure to get one. They also decided to make it free, which shows they probably want to achieve a high adoption.

mrob 1y ago
Optional meaning you have the choice of using the existing physical ID. I don't see how this is deceptive. "A lot of pressure" is not the same as being unable to legally work without the digital ID.
- pheggs 1y ago
  Because they did advertise it in a way to make people believe they could still do their things online without an E-ID, which will not be the case. It's not optional online.
  - dbrgn 1y ago
    Companies can already request and will still be able to request a PDF scan of your ID. Or worse, video ident through a private third party. This is the status quo for ordering alcohol online, or if you want to open a bank account. The new E-ID based on SSI (self-sovereign identity) is so much better than the status quo from a real-world privacy perspective towards companies that must verify your identity or age.
    - pheggs 1y ago
      > This is the status quo for ordering alcohol online, or if you want to open a bank account. I just ordered alcohol yesterday and they only checked it up on delivery. There's no obligation to check it online. > The new E-ID based on SSI (self-sovereign identity) is so much better than the status quo from a real-world privacy perspective towards companies that must verify your identity or age. While I agree it's better than scanning your documents, it probably will become more popular since it's easier to check and integrate. That will in my opinion become a net negative for privacy
      - dbrgn 1y ago
        Fair, this may be a legal option for ordering alcohol. I really don't see the pure cryptographic hash "is older than 18y" as a big privacy issue though, as long as it is properly salted, does not provide other information on my identity and is unlinkable (i.e. multiple such signed claims are different). The last time I opened an account for a financial service, as well as when creating an account with a service for digital document signatures, I had to do a video ident process with a private third party company. There was no other option, and I felt quite uneasy about it. I would have preferred the E-ID by far in both cases. Both companies will inevitably store information about me to provide their service, independently of the identity verification. That is legitimate and inevitable for their service. That other, third party company storing a video of me holding my ID and my face into the camera is now not inevitable anymore.