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> Progress in information systems cannot be compared to progress in physical systems. > For starters, physical systems compete for limited resources and labor.

> Progress in information systems cannot be compared to progress in physical systems. > For starters, physical systems compete for limited resources and labor. > Finally, the underlying substrate of software is digital hardware… See how these are related?

Nevermark 1y ago
By physical systems, I meant systems whose purpose is to do physical work. Mechanical things. Gears. Struts. Computer hardware is an information system. You are correct that it is has a physical component. But its power comes from its organization (information) not its mass, weight, etc. Transistors get more powerful, not less, when made from less matter. Information systems move from substrate to more efficient substrate. They are not their substrate.
- travisjungroth 1y ago
  They still depend on physical resources and labor. They’re made by people and machines. There’s never been more resources going into information systems than right now, and AI accelerated that greatly. Think of all the server farms being built next to power plants.
  - Nevermark 1y ago
    Yes. Of course. All information has a substrate at any given time. But the amount of computation per resource drops because computation is not something tied to any unit matter. Nor any particular substrate. It is not the same as a steam engine, which can only be made so efficient. The amount of both matter and labor per quantity of computing power is dropping exponentially. Right? See a sibling reply on the physical limits of computation. We are several singularities away from any hard limit. Evidence: History of industrialization vs. history of computing. Fundamental physics.
    - travisjungroth 1y ago
      > The amount of both matter and labor per quantity of computing power is dropping exponentially. Right? Right. The problem is the demand is increasing exponentially. It’s not like when computers got 1000x more powerful we were able to get by with 1/1000x of them. Quite the opposite (or inverse, to be more precise). Just to go back to my original point, I think drawing a comparison that physical systems compete for physical resources and implying information systems don’t is misleading at best. It’s especially obvious right now with all the competition for compute going on.

Nevermark 1y ago

By physical systems, I meant systems whose purpose is to do physical work. Mechanical things. Gears. Struts. Computer hardware is an information system. You are correct that it is has a physical component. But its power comes from its organization (information) not its mass, weight, etc. Transistors get more powerful, not less, when made from less matter. Information systems move from substrate to more efficient substrate. They are not their substrate.

travisjungroth 1y ago
They still depend on physical resources and labor. They’re made by people and machines. There’s never been more resources going into information systems than right now, and AI accelerated that greatly. Think of all the server farms being built next to power plants.
- Nevermark 1y ago
  Yes. Of course. All information has a substrate at any given time. But the amount of computation per resource drops because computation is not something tied to any unit matter. Nor any particular substrate. It is not the same as a steam engine, which can only be made so efficient. The amount of both matter and labor per quantity of computing power is dropping exponentially. Right? See a sibling reply on the physical limits of computation. We are several singularities away from any hard limit. Evidence: History of industrialization vs. history of computing. Fundamental physics.
  - travisjungroth 1y ago
    > The amount of both matter and labor per quantity of computing power is dropping exponentially. Right? Right. The problem is the demand is increasing exponentially. It’s not like when computers got 1000x more powerful we were able to get by with 1/1000x of them. Quite the opposite (or inverse, to be more precise). Just to go back to my original point, I think drawing a comparison that physical systems compete for physical resources and implying information systems don’t is misleading at best. It’s especially obvious right now with all the competition for compute going on.