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This poses a fun dilemma: the belief that Russia deliberately targets civilians (which is likely correct) almost requires us to also believe that the Russian ar

This poses a fun dilemma: the belief that Russia deliberately targets civilians (which is likely correct) almost requires us to also believe that the Russian army fields precision weaponry allowing deliberately targeting things (of which the evidence is scarce).

drysine 1y ago
>which is likely correct Why do you think that? >almost requires us to also believe That's easy. Russia deliberately targets civilians, but being totally inept, misses and hits different civilians. >of which the evidence is scarce Is it? Have a look at this one, where Russia hit Ukrainian MLRSes in a night strike.[0] Western media reported that as inhuman and savage Russians destroying a shopping mall.[1] The mall indeed suffered but only because the Ukrainians parked MLRSes next to it. Ironically the Ukraine itself provided the evidence of that by distributing video where they talk about the mall but incidentally show destroyed MLRS (the other one got evaporated).[2] [0] https://t.me/aleksandr_skif/3150 https://t.me/aleksandr_skif/3150 [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/06/world/europe/russia-ukraine-kharkiv-glide-bombs.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/06/world/europe/russia-ukrai... [2] https://t.me/ASupersharij/28133 https://t.me/ASupersharij/28133
- animuchan 1y ago
  Point taken, thanks! Re: Russia deliberately targets civilians, but being totally inept, misses and hits different civilians. -- Yep, absolutely, but this is unfalsifiable I guess. I mean, maybe they're targeting hostile aliens from space, but being inept, [...] Re: Why do you think that? -- I extrapolate from Putin's allies really. Hamas specifically (and very vocally / proudly) targets civilians, Hezbollah targets civilians, Iran and Houthis routinely fire ballistic missiles at residential areas. (I'm only listing things I've actually witnessed, as a noncombatant.) So intuitively they're all in the same bucket. I'll be happy to be completely wrong about Russia in this regard.
  - tim333 1y ago
    There's this, though with a drone https://www.hrw.org/news/2025/06/17/russia-uses-drones-to-target-civilians-in-alarming-development https://www.hrw.org/news/2025/06/17/russia-uses-drones-to-ta...
    - drysine 1y ago
      Here is one of the top Ukrainian propagandists posting in his personal channel a video from Belgorod (Russia) that shows wounded Russian women screaming and thrashing in agony (the text reads "Happy New Year, bitches") after Ukrainian MLRS strike at the city: https://t.me/dmytrogordon_official/39688 https://t.me/dmytrogordon_official/39688 Here is the Ukraine targeting the same high-rise apartment building in Kazan with multiple drones: https://t.me/readovkanews/91042 https://t.me/readovkanews/91042 Here is the Ukraine blowing a bridge in Russia exactly when a passenger train was passing under it leading to deaths of civilians including children: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/01/deaths-as-russian-train-hits-collapsed-bridge-after-interference https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/01/deaths-as-russ... Here are a paramedic and an ambulance driver murdered by Ukrainian drone near Sudzha (Kurskaya oblast): https://t.me/readovkanews/85353 https://t.me/readovkanews/85353 I could go on and on. Which conclusions do you draw from that about the current Ukrainian regime or Ukrainian nationalists?
      - tim333 1y ago
        I'd say it's a fine example of whataboutism in an argument. The fact that other people in history have committed atrocities does not mean it's hunky dory to Russia to murder people.
        drysine 1y ago
        >that other people in history What? It's atrocities that are being committed right now by the Ukraine. Do they mean that "Ukraine deliberately targets Russian civilians"?
        1y ago

drysine 1y ago

>which is likely correct Why do you think that? >almost requires us to also believe That's easy. Russia deliberately targets civilians, but being totally inept, misses and hits different civilians. >of which the evidence is scarce Is it? Have a look at this one, where Russia hit Ukrainian MLRSes in a night strike.[0] Western media reported that as inhuman and savage Russians destroying a shopping mall.[1] The mall indeed suffered but only because the Ukrainians parked MLRSes next to it. Ironically the Ukraine itself provided the evidence of that by distributing video where they talk about the mall but incidentally show destroyed MLRS (the other one got evaporated).[2] [0] https://t.me/aleksandr_skif/3150 https://t.me/aleksandr_skif/3150 [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/06/world/europe/russia-ukraine-kharkiv-glide-bombs.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/06/world/europe/russia-ukrai... [2] https://t.me/ASupersharij/28133 https://t.me/ASupersharij/28133

animuchan 1y ago
Point taken, thanks! Re: Russia deliberately targets civilians, but being totally inept, misses and hits different civilians. -- Yep, absolutely, but this is unfalsifiable I guess. I mean, maybe they're targeting hostile aliens from space, but being inept, [...] Re: Why do you think that? -- I extrapolate from Putin's allies really. Hamas specifically (and very vocally / proudly) targets civilians, Hezbollah targets civilians, Iran and Houthis routinely fire ballistic missiles at residential areas. (I'm only listing things I've actually witnessed, as a noncombatant.) So intuitively they're all in the same bucket. I'll be happy to be completely wrong about Russia in this regard.
- tim333 1y ago
  There's this, though with a drone https://www.hrw.org/news/2025/06/17/russia-uses-drones-to-target-civilians-in-alarming-development https://www.hrw.org/news/2025/06/17/russia-uses-drones-to-ta...
  - drysine 1y ago
    Here is one of the top Ukrainian propagandists posting in his personal channel a video from Belgorod (Russia) that shows wounded Russian women screaming and thrashing in agony (the text reads "Happy New Year, bitches") after Ukrainian MLRS strike at the city: https://t.me/dmytrogordon_official/39688 https://t.me/dmytrogordon_official/39688 Here is the Ukraine targeting the same high-rise apartment building in Kazan with multiple drones: https://t.me/readovkanews/91042 https://t.me/readovkanews/91042 Here is the Ukraine blowing a bridge in Russia exactly when a passenger train was passing under it leading to deaths of civilians including children: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/01/deaths-as-russian-train-hits-collapsed-bridge-after-interference https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/01/deaths-as-russ... Here are a paramedic and an ambulance driver murdered by Ukrainian drone near Sudzha (Kurskaya oblast): https://t.me/readovkanews/85353 https://t.me/readovkanews/85353 I could go on and on. Which conclusions do you draw from that about the current Ukrainian regime or Ukrainian nationalists?
    - tim333 1y ago
      I'd say it's a fine example of whataboutism in an argument. The fact that other people in history have committed atrocities does not mean it's hunky dory to Russia to murder people.
      - drysine 1y ago
        >that other people in history What? It's atrocities that are being committed right now by the Ukraine. Do they mean that "Ukraine deliberately targets Russian civilians"?
        1y ago