5 ms·

> Nothing stops Microsoft.... Nothing stops Google... Not really true. They have skin in the game. They have legitimate revenue at stake. If they betray trust

> Nothing stops Microsoft.... Nothing stops Google... Not really true. They have skin in the game. They have legitimate revenue at stake. If they betray trust on such a scale, and we find out, they'll be out of business.

SoftTalker 1y ago
Of course. I should have added “if they wanted to” and there is almost no rational reason that they would.
tormeh 1y ago
Idk, I think Microsoft could get away with a lot. Not selling your emails to the highest bidder, that might be a bridge too far, but training an LLM on Outlook emails? Probably. Just have an LLM scan every email to see if its contents are mundane or secret first, and only use the mundane ones. There might be a scandal of some sort, then Microsoft would say sorry (but keep the model), and then everyone would move on because the switching costs are too high.
- EGreg 1y ago
  Why would selling your emails to the highest bidder be a bridge too far? Your ISP already could sell all the data they have on you that way…
- bix6 1y ago
  Sounds like Ramp ha
noAnswer 1y ago
"Not really true"?! TRUE AS HELL! "Outlook New" LITERALLY DOES THAT! It's an infostealer. Microsoft gets your login info and downloads your mails, contacts and calenders to its own servers! How this app is legal and not marked as malware is beyond me! It's the biggest information heists in history! https://www.heise.de/en/news/Microsoft-lays-hands-on-login-data-Beware-of-the-new-Outlook-9608798.html https://www.heise.de/en/news/Microsoft-lays-hands-on-login-d... https://cybernews.com/privacy/new-outlook-copies-user-emails-to-microsoft-cloud/ https://cybernews.com/privacy/new-outlook-copies-user-emails... > If they betray trust on such a scale, and we find out, they'll be out of business. The decision makers don't care. They could eat children and they still would buy from them. https://www.wiz.io/blog/storm-0558-compromised-microsoft-key-enables-authentication-of-countless-micr https://www.wiz.io/blog/storm-0558-compromised-microsoft-key...
- vladvasiliu 1y ago
  Do people actually choose to use Outlook if they're not already forced to use Exchange/Office365, usually for work? In my experience, it's hands down the worst e-mail client I've ever used. I only have it on my work PC because my employer uses Office 365. It never even crossed my mind to try to use it for my personal e-mailing needs. I do agree, however, that companies that decide to trust MS don't care one bit about their scandalous practices. I don't even think it's as much of an actual choice as a cop-out, as in "everybody uses microsoft", so they rarely actually ponder the decision.
  - bix6 1y ago
    What do you recommend businesses use instead?
  - noAnswer 1y ago
    Outlook New gets installed by default on Windows 11. Of course people gonna use it. Even if they just trial it, their data is gone. A Anti-Virus should stop the software from running. But that will never happen. > "everybody uses microsoft", so they rarely actually ponder the decision. Exactly. That is my main argument against PantaloonFlames's claim "They have legitimate revenue at stake. If they betray trust on such a scale, and we find out, they'll be out of business." At a certain scale nothing matters anymore! You can Bluescreen half the planet and still be in business.
- taskforcegemini 1y ago
  the articles is from 2023, but from personal experience they have been doing that a lot longer
latexr 1y ago
> If they betray trust on such a scale, and we find out, they'll be out of business. Provably false. Google has been found to lie about data collection for years and they still have more money than ever.

SoftTalker 1y ago

Of course. I should have added “if they wanted to” and there is almost no rational reason that they would.

tormeh 1y ago

Idk, I think Microsoft could get away with a lot. Not selling your emails to the highest bidder, that might be a bridge too far, but training an LLM on Outlook emails? Probably. Just have an LLM scan every email to see if its contents are mundane or secret first, and only use the mundane ones. There might be a scandal of some sort, then Microsoft would say sorry (but keep the model), and then everyone would move on because the switching costs are too high.

EGreg 1y ago
Why would selling your emails to the highest bidder be a bridge too far? Your ISP already could sell all the data they have on you that way…
bix6 1y ago
Sounds like Ramp ha

noAnswer 1y ago

"Not really true"?! TRUE AS HELL! "Outlook New" LITERALLY DOES THAT! It's an infostealer. Microsoft gets your login info and downloads your mails, contacts and calenders to its own servers! How this app is legal and not marked as malware is beyond me! It's the biggest information heists in history! https://www.heise.de/en/news/Microsoft-lays-hands-on-login-data-Beware-of-the-new-Outlook-9608798.html https://www.heise.de/en/news/Microsoft-lays-hands-on-login-d... https://cybernews.com/privacy/new-outlook-copies-user-emails-to-microsoft-cloud/ https://cybernews.com/privacy/new-outlook-copies-user-emails... > If they betray trust on such a scale, and we find out, they'll be out of business. The decision makers don't care. They could eat children and they still would buy from them. https://www.wiz.io/blog/storm-0558-compromised-microsoft-key-enables-authentication-of-countless-micr https://www.wiz.io/blog/storm-0558-compromised-microsoft-key...

vladvasiliu 1y ago
Do people actually choose to use Outlook if they're not already forced to use Exchange/Office365, usually for work? In my experience, it's hands down the worst e-mail client I've ever used. I only have it on my work PC because my employer uses Office 365. It never even crossed my mind to try to use it for my personal e-mailing needs. I do agree, however, that companies that decide to trust MS don't care one bit about their scandalous practices. I don't even think it's as much of an actual choice as a cop-out, as in "everybody uses microsoft", so they rarely actually ponder the decision.
- bix6 1y ago
  What do you recommend businesses use instead?
- noAnswer 1y ago
  Outlook New gets installed by default on Windows 11. Of course people gonna use it. Even if they just trial it, their data is gone. A Anti-Virus should stop the software from running. But that will never happen. > "everybody uses microsoft", so they rarely actually ponder the decision. Exactly. That is my main argument against PantaloonFlames's claim "They have legitimate revenue at stake. If they betray trust on such a scale, and we find out, they'll be out of business." At a certain scale nothing matters anymore! You can Bluescreen half the planet and still be in business.
taskforcegemini 1y ago
the articles is from 2023, but from personal experience they have been doing that a lot longer

latexr 1y ago

> If they betray trust on such a scale, and we find out, they'll be out of business. Provably false. Google has been found to lie about data collection for years and they still have more money than ever.