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I don't think this is a competitive product. You can get a more powerful PC on Amazon for less. It's neat, but more of a fun gadget than a good cost-benefit off

I don't think this is a competitive product. You can get a more powerful PC on Amazon for less. It's neat, but more of a fun gadget than a good cost-benefit offering. The Raspberry Pi foundation isn't going in a good direction IMHO.

TheChaplain 1y ago
I don't think they are out to compete with anything, but provide educational tools and an amazing community. So I believe a lot of people simply misunderstand what the Raspberry Pi foundation is trying to do.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- torben-friis 1y ago
  Can you educate me on that? My first thought was that what you want for education is a best bang for your buck computer so that a student has an affordable option. In that sense the most competitive option would be the best choice. But I’m probably missing some extra feature or idea that makes the pi a better option even if comparatively more expensive? What’s is it?
  - kube-system 1y ago
    The best option for education is going to be the system with the best educational resources. Performance per dollar isn’t really relevant, because educational uses don’t need good performance. Most of what you do in an educational environment are simple use cases. Back in the 90s, schools were filled with either IBM or Apple computers. Not because they were cheap, but because they were predictably compatible with the types of software that educators wanted to use in those environments. They could’ve bought cheaper clones.
    - torben-friis 1y ago
      That doesn’t really answer my question though, what makes this device have more “educational resources”? Pretty much any computer that runs windows or a Linux distro will have access to equivalent tooling, wouldn’t it?
      - kube-system 1y ago
        The Raspberry Pi foundation is not a computer company, they are an educational charity that just happens to also make a computer. Their primary work is in pedagogy resources, research, and support. A Raspberry Pi has more educational resources, because literally that is the primary work of the company that makes it. They have a full CS curriculum for ages 5-19. The entire reason it exists is as an educational tool. Their mission statement doesn't even mention making a computer -- they simply do that to support their primary education work. https://www.raspberrypi.org/about/ https://www.raspberrypi.org/about/ https://www.raspberrypi.org/research-impact/ https://www.raspberrypi.org/research-impact/ https://www.raspberrypi.org/teach/ https://www.raspberrypi.org/teach/ https://www.raspberrypi.org/learn/ https://www.raspberrypi.org/learn/ https://codeclub.org/en https://codeclub.org/en It wasn't until later that hobbyists and commercial interests also started using Raspberry Pis for things outside of the classroom. But that's where they came from.
        klelatti 1y ago
        Not really true any more. You've linked to the foundation but the computers are made by Raspberry PI Holdings which is listed on the London Stock Exchange. The foundation still owns part of the quoted company and retains its educational purpose but it doesn't make the computers now.
        KaiserPro 1y ago
        > retains its educational purpose but it doesn't make the computers now. It never did. The structure hasn't changed meaningfully recently, apart from the massive windfall of floating the commercial arm. The foundation's purpose hasn't changed, its just now a fucktonne richer. But the thing I'm not quite sure about is why that matters, virtually every other player, apart from adafruit is a corporation all about shareholder value.
massysett 1y ago
More powerful PC from whom? Some no-name outfit? Good luck sorting through the flea market dreck. Raspberry Pi has built the best brand in this space.
- dingnuts 1y ago
  is this... just racism, actually? there are a million cool electronics on Amazon from random Shenzhen sellers and while I prefer that my electronics come from countries with better human rights records it's not flea market dreck, it's very much the best stuff you can buy, that you can't get anywhere else. the attitude that stuff from brands you don't recognize from Shenzhen are "flea market dreck" is exactly why Chinese brands like DVI are winning
  - IlikeKitties 1y ago
    >is this... just racism, actually? Perhaps but mostly a result of decades of bad consumer experiences. From Malware preinstalled to terrible software support and downright dangerous electronics, chinese hardware from alibaba amazon and ebay is rightfully regarded as questionable, potentially even dangerous until proven otherwise. And without a track record in software updates, any company selling any internet or god forbid cloud connected device is plain irresposible to use until proven otherwise.
  - beala 1y ago
    I don’t see what racism has to do with it. Most of my electronic components originate from China one way or another, but there’s a real difference in quality between established brands and the random stuff popping up on amazon in the last few years. To review a few experiences I’ve had: - Wires I bought for breadboard prototyping turned out to not be made of copper after I noticed them sticking to a magnet on my workbench. - A power supply module I purchased appeared to be using counterfeit chips. The switching frequency didn’t match the TI data sheet for the markings on the chip. - I wasted several days trying to get an sdcard module to work. I gave up and ordered from adafruit instead and those worked on the first try. Not to mention the well documented problems with counterfeit sdcards, etc. With mini PCs, there are a million different ways bargain brands can cut corners that won’t show up immediately.
mikestew 1y ago
You can get a more powerful PC on Amazon for less. I think you might be missing the point. If you’re looking for the cheapest, most cost-effective computer, and you’re willing to shop for it on Amazon, then I know you’re missing the point.
numpad0 1y ago
Raspberry Pi was always intended to be an educational device. It doesn't have to be strictly the best performer.
- IlikeKitties 1y ago
  Those days have long passed and most of the money is made on the b2b/industrial side. But these days raspberry pis only have a mode in software compatibility and LTS and those are slowly dwindling away. I'd be hard pressed to buy a raspberry pi of any kind these days when RK35XX Devices are available and beat pis at almost every task. I really hope the pi foundation gets their head out of their behinds and stars competing again.
  - hackernewds 1y ago
    Not every thing in life is about money or competing.
    - IlikeKitties 1y ago
      Yes that why you should buy the slower, worse version for more money. It's not about that. Or competing. It's about buying a brandname original Raspberry Pi^tm^(r) and not the cheaper faster alternative.
  - type0 1y ago
    > RK35XX Devices are available and beat pis at almost every task. teoretical performance, yes practicality, no availability, no community, no manufacturer support, no expandability, no etc etc
- userbinator 1y ago
  It was always intended to be a way to whitewash Broadcom and "educate" as a gateway drug for promoting proprietary closed platforms.
  - numpad0 1y ago
allenu 1y ago
I'm confused as to why they decided to build this when they already previously built the Raspberry Pi 400 keyboard all-in-one for under $100. As a casual observer, I don't know who they've built this $200 machine for. A cheap all-in-one for education totally makes sense, but this is a bit too much. Maybe someone more in the know can help us understand what direction the company's going?
- TMWNN 1y ago
  >I'm confused as to why they decided to build this when they already previously built the Raspberry Pi 400 keyboard all-in-one for under $100. As you would have been told in the second paragraph had you actually read the article, this is not a replacement for the existing Pi 500, which costs about that much MSRP.
  - allenu 1y ago
    You're right, I forgot about the Pi 500 which was already that price. Still, it doesn't answer my question about who this is for. Is their strategy to branch out to more premium prices? Did they see enough uptake of the Pi 500 that they figured there's enough of a niche to want to pay $200 for a bit more? It's just interesting to me that they started out making cheap little educational devices that were great for the price and now they're making $200 devices. I understand there's a profit-making side to Raspberry Pi now that they're not strictly just a charity, so this must be some long-term bet.
- jzb 1y ago
  How’s it too much? I’m baffled. If I had a kid between 10-18ish that needed/wanted a non-gaming computer, I would find this to be nearly perfect. $200 is not a ton of money for a computer, and it seems to be just powerful enough I wouldn’t worry about general tasks being frustrating.
  - akho 1y ago
    It is frustrating though. And more expensive than an n100 box + keyboard, which is both more powerful, and has better software support.
Aurornis 1y ago
> The Raspberry Pi foundation isn't going in a good direction IMHO. I disagree. This is exactly the type of product they should be building: It’s fun. It’s self contained. It lights up and looks intriguing to young people. It has a great community. It has plenty of documentation. You can expand from it and tap into a big universe of Raspberry Pi projects. You can store it away when you or your kids are done with it. You can connect it to your TV easily. This is perfect for everything the Raspberry Pi Foundation set out to do: Be an educational ecosystem that was easy to access. So many people are confused by Raspberry Pi because they think it’s supposed to be the most powerful or most bang for your buck general compute machine out there. That’s not their goal or their market. As you said, if someone wants a fast general purpose PC they shouldn’t even be looking at this. That’s not what it’s for.
- pcdoodle 1y ago
  Some kid is going to get inspired. Hacking the shit out of the lights under the keyboard on this and have a lifelong muse due to it. I’m sure of it.
  - Aurornis 1y ago
    Exactly. The people who scoff at this unit and demand a faster SoC and other features for their project are completely missing the point. This isn’t for those people. This is for making computing exciting and interesting at an affordable price point that can be plugged into a TV or cheap monitor and comes with a big ecosystem of support.
    - redwall_hp 1y ago
      That was the prime directive of the Raspberry Pi foundation all along: they wanted to recreate the BBC Micro experience. Back in its heyday, it was both purchasable and widely installed in schools, and the BBC ran educational television shows about computing. This is also why Raapbian ships with programming tools set up out of the box. It was kind of an accident that the Raspberry Pi also became the de facto standard single-board computer for hobby electronics projects.
mindcrime 1y ago
> You can get a more powerful PC on Amazon for less. I'm not sure that really matters. It's well known that most people are not "homo economicus" rational / optimizing agents seeking to min/max every purchase decision. A lot of other factors go into purchases, and name recognition, brand loyalty, and general goodwill count for a lot with most people. Of course there are eventual limits to that, and any brand can be displaced if they are too cavalier with regards to meeting consumer needs. But in this case, I strongly suspect the people that want a Raspberry Pi 500+ are the people that want a Raspberry Pi 500+ and that's the end of it. They're not going to buy the competing product because it's $20 cheaper. Also, something Jeff has pointed out in his videos on many occasions, as I recall: don't underestimate the importance of the associated software (eg, a working, supported OS with usable drivers that work on the device) as well as the community (support forums, etc) and the overall ecosystem (supported / trusted add-ons, mods, etc). To a lot of people it's that stuff that keeps them coming back to the RPi brand.
harrisonjackson 1y ago
In a keyboard format? Something running a simple OS that doesn't link you or your family identity and data straight into Google? Something a less technical parent can wire up in the family room from a trusted brand without having to do a ton of research for not only reputable brands but also vendors on amazon? Educational mission aside this is a good alternative to a chromebook.
- ThrowawayR2 1y ago
  The existing non-plus version of the Raspberry Pi 500 serves that need for $100. This is about the new Raspberry Pi 500+ that costs twice as much.
pizlonator 1y ago
Yes but it has the cuteness factor
KaiserPro 1y ago
Competitive for what? If I want a home server, then sure its no the right product. If I want to give a machine that a child can tinker with, and has lots of support /docs on how to do cool shit with it, then this is probably one way. If thats too expensive, then the plain 500, for half the price.
- glimshe 1y ago
  What is there to tinker? Using the connector on the back? As you pointed out, you get that on the cheaper option. The mini PCs sold everywhere these days use standard Linux with over the counter components by Intel and AMD that are documented to death. They have the memory, faster CPU, fast storage, multiple HDMI outs, power switches etc. They run Windows if that's your thing. You can actually use them as your main computer if you are a teenager or light user. This is far from the British computers that theoretically inspired the foundation. Even the cheaper 500 isn't such a great value for real world computer education. I bet more adult hobbyists like me use them than actual children.
  - KaiserPro 1y ago
    > counter components by Intel and AMD that are documented to death can you show me the GPIO library and documentation for a beelink n100? where are the i2c pins on the motherboard, do they come with headers, or do we need to solder them in? > Even the cheaper 500 isn't such a great value, unlike for instance, the foundation's (and mine) beloved ZX Spectrum. the non plus 500 is £84. The Zxspectrum would be £500 adjusted for inflation. a decent n100 (ie one that isn't a gamble) is £250, and again is for a different purpose.
  - type0 1y ago
    I would argue that 400 is not a good value either, for that price you have to deal with occasionally broken file-system because caused by sd card and terrible keyboard. Not a good experience for beginner or a learning child. People like to criticise x64 but getting a thin client from ebay and ESP32 GPIO board is probably the best bang for your buck. No one buys raspberry pi to save money anymore, you buy it because you want to use Arm architecture and ability to use Android builds like LineageOS.
rldjbpin 1y ago
i come to now think of rpi as the "lego" of computing. just thinking in terms of sticker price misses the point.

TheChaplain 1y ago

I don't think they are out to compete with anything, but provide educational tools and an amazing community. So I believe a lot of people simply misunderstand what the Raspberry Pi foundation is trying to do.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
torben-friis 1y ago
Can you educate me on that? My first thought was that what you want for education is a best bang for your buck computer so that a student has an affordable option. In that sense the most competitive option would be the best choice. But I’m probably missing some extra feature or idea that makes the pi a better option even if comparatively more expensive? What’s is it?
- kube-system 1y ago
  The best option for education is going to be the system with the best educational resources. Performance per dollar isn’t really relevant, because educational uses don’t need good performance. Most of what you do in an educational environment are simple use cases. Back in the 90s, schools were filled with either IBM or Apple computers. Not because they were cheap, but because they were predictably compatible with the types of software that educators wanted to use in those environments. They could’ve bought cheaper clones.
  - torben-friis 1y ago
    That doesn’t really answer my question though, what makes this device have more “educational resources”? Pretty much any computer that runs windows or a Linux distro will have access to equivalent tooling, wouldn’t it?
    - kube-system 1y ago
      The Raspberry Pi foundation is not a computer company, they are an educational charity that just happens to also make a computer. Their primary work is in pedagogy resources, research, and support. A Raspberry Pi has more educational resources, because literally that is the primary work of the company that makes it. They have a full CS curriculum for ages 5-19. The entire reason it exists is as an educational tool. Their mission statement doesn't even mention making a computer -- they simply do that to support their primary education work. https://www.raspberrypi.org/about/ https://www.raspberrypi.org/about/ https://www.raspberrypi.org/research-impact/ https://www.raspberrypi.org/research-impact/ https://www.raspberrypi.org/teach/ https://www.raspberrypi.org/teach/ https://www.raspberrypi.org/learn/ https://www.raspberrypi.org/learn/ https://codeclub.org/en https://codeclub.org/en It wasn't until later that hobbyists and commercial interests also started using Raspberry Pis for things outside of the classroom. But that's where they came from.
      - klelatti 1y ago
        Not really true any more. You've linked to the foundation but the computers are made by Raspberry PI Holdings which is listed on the London Stock Exchange. The foundation still owns part of the quoted company and retains its educational purpose but it doesn't make the computers now.
        KaiserPro 1y ago
        > retains its educational purpose but it doesn't make the computers now. It never did. The structure hasn't changed meaningfully recently, apart from the massive windfall of floating the commercial arm. The foundation's purpose hasn't changed, its just now a fucktonne richer. But the thing I'm not quite sure about is why that matters, virtually every other player, apart from adafruit is a corporation all about shareholder value.

massysett 1y ago

More powerful PC from whom? Some no-name outfit? Good luck sorting through the flea market dreck. Raspberry Pi has built the best brand in this space.

dingnuts 1y ago
is this... just racism, actually? there are a million cool electronics on Amazon from random Shenzhen sellers and while I prefer that my electronics come from countries with better human rights records it's not flea market dreck, it's very much the best stuff you can buy, that you can't get anywhere else. the attitude that stuff from brands you don't recognize from Shenzhen are "flea market dreck" is exactly why Chinese brands like DVI are winning
- IlikeKitties 1y ago
  >is this... just racism, actually? Perhaps but mostly a result of decades of bad consumer experiences. From Malware preinstalled to terrible software support and downright dangerous electronics, chinese hardware from alibaba amazon and ebay is rightfully regarded as questionable, potentially even dangerous until proven otherwise. And without a track record in software updates, any company selling any internet or god forbid cloud connected device is plain irresposible to use until proven otherwise.
- beala 1y ago
  I don’t see what racism has to do with it. Most of my electronic components originate from China one way or another, but there’s a real difference in quality between established brands and the random stuff popping up on amazon in the last few years. To review a few experiences I’ve had: - Wires I bought for breadboard prototyping turned out to not be made of copper after I noticed them sticking to a magnet on my workbench. - A power supply module I purchased appeared to be using counterfeit chips. The switching frequency didn’t match the TI data sheet for the markings on the chip. - I wasted several days trying to get an sdcard module to work. I gave up and ordered from adafruit instead and those worked on the first try. Not to mention the well documented problems with counterfeit sdcards, etc. With mini PCs, there are a million different ways bargain brands can cut corners that won’t show up immediately.

mikestew 1y ago

You can get a more powerful PC on Amazon for less. I think you might be missing the point. If you’re looking for the cheapest, most cost-effective computer, and you’re willing to shop for it on Amazon, then I know you’re missing the point.

numpad0 1y ago

Raspberry Pi was always intended to be an educational device. It doesn't have to be strictly the best performer.

IlikeKitties 1y ago
Those days have long passed and most of the money is made on the b2b/industrial side. But these days raspberry pis only have a mode in software compatibility and LTS and those are slowly dwindling away. I'd be hard pressed to buy a raspberry pi of any kind these days when RK35XX Devices are available and beat pis at almost every task. I really hope the pi foundation gets their head out of their behinds and stars competing again.
- hackernewds 1y ago
  Not every thing in life is about money or competing.
  - IlikeKitties 1y ago
    Yes that why you should buy the slower, worse version for more money. It's not about that. Or competing. It's about buying a brandname original Raspberry Pi^tm^(r) and not the cheaper faster alternative.
- type0 1y ago
  > RK35XX Devices are available and beat pis at almost every task. teoretical performance, yes practicality, no availability, no community, no manufacturer support, no expandability, no etc etc
userbinator 1y ago
It was always intended to be a way to whitewash Broadcom and "educate" as a gateway drug for promoting proprietary closed platforms.
- numpad0 1y ago

allenu 1y ago

I'm confused as to why they decided to build this when they already previously built the Raspberry Pi 400 keyboard all-in-one for under $100. As a casual observer, I don't know who they've built this $200 machine for. A cheap all-in-one for education totally makes sense, but this is a bit too much. Maybe someone more in the know can help us understand what direction the company's going?

TMWNN 1y ago
>I'm confused as to why they decided to build this when they already previously built the Raspberry Pi 400 keyboard all-in-one for under $100. As you would have been told in the second paragraph had you actually read the article, this is not a replacement for the existing Pi 500, which costs about that much MSRP.
- allenu 1y ago
  You're right, I forgot about the Pi 500 which was already that price. Still, it doesn't answer my question about who this is for. Is their strategy to branch out to more premium prices? Did they see enough uptake of the Pi 500 that they figured there's enough of a niche to want to pay $200 for a bit more? It's just interesting to me that they started out making cheap little educational devices that were great for the price and now they're making $200 devices. I understand there's a profit-making side to Raspberry Pi now that they're not strictly just a charity, so this must be some long-term bet.
jzb 1y ago
How’s it too much? I’m baffled. If I had a kid between 10-18ish that needed/wanted a non-gaming computer, I would find this to be nearly perfect. $200 is not a ton of money for a computer, and it seems to be just powerful enough I wouldn’t worry about general tasks being frustrating.
- akho 1y ago
  It is frustrating though. And more expensive than an n100 box + keyboard, which is both more powerful, and has better software support.

Aurornis 1y ago

> The Raspberry Pi foundation isn't going in a good direction IMHO. I disagree. This is exactly the type of product they should be building: It’s fun. It’s self contained. It lights up and looks intriguing to young people. It has a great community. It has plenty of documentation. You can expand from it and tap into a big universe of Raspberry Pi projects. You can store it away when you or your kids are done with it. You can connect it to your TV easily. This is perfect for everything the Raspberry Pi Foundation set out to do: Be an educational ecosystem that was easy to access. So many people are confused by Raspberry Pi because they think it’s supposed to be the most powerful or most bang for your buck general compute machine out there. That’s not their goal or their market. As you said, if someone wants a fast general purpose PC they shouldn’t even be looking at this. That’s not what it’s for.

pcdoodle 1y ago
Some kid is going to get inspired. Hacking the shit out of the lights under the keyboard on this and have a lifelong muse due to it. I’m sure of it.
- Aurornis 1y ago
  Exactly. The people who scoff at this unit and demand a faster SoC and other features for their project are completely missing the point. This isn’t for those people. This is for making computing exciting and interesting at an affordable price point that can be plugged into a TV or cheap monitor and comes with a big ecosystem of support.
  - redwall_hp 1y ago
    That was the prime directive of the Raspberry Pi foundation all along: they wanted to recreate the BBC Micro experience. Back in its heyday, it was both purchasable and widely installed in schools, and the BBC ran educational television shows about computing. This is also why Raapbian ships with programming tools set up out of the box. It was kind of an accident that the Raspberry Pi also became the de facto standard single-board computer for hobby electronics projects.

mindcrime 1y ago

> You can get a more powerful PC on Amazon for less. I'm not sure that really matters. It's well known that most people are not "homo economicus" rational / optimizing agents seeking to min/max every purchase decision. A lot of other factors go into purchases, and name recognition, brand loyalty, and general goodwill count for a lot with most people. Of course there are eventual limits to that, and any brand can be displaced if they are too cavalier with regards to meeting consumer needs. But in this case, I strongly suspect the people that want a Raspberry Pi 500+ are the people that want a Raspberry Pi 500+ and that's the end of it. They're not going to buy the competing product because it's $20 cheaper. Also, something Jeff has pointed out in his videos on many occasions, as I recall: don't underestimate the importance of the associated software (eg, a working, supported OS with usable drivers that work on the device) as well as the community (support forums, etc) and the overall ecosystem (supported / trusted add-ons, mods, etc). To a lot of people it's that stuff that keeps them coming back to the RPi brand.

harrisonjackson 1y ago

In a keyboard format? Something running a simple OS that doesn't link you or your family identity and data straight into Google? Something a less technical parent can wire up in the family room from a trusted brand without having to do a ton of research for not only reputable brands but also vendors on amazon? Educational mission aside this is a good alternative to a chromebook.

ThrowawayR2 1y ago
The existing non-plus version of the Raspberry Pi 500 serves that need for $100. This is about the new Raspberry Pi 500+ that costs twice as much.

pizlonator 1y ago

Yes but it has the cuteness factor

KaiserPro 1y ago

Competitive for what? If I want a home server, then sure its no the right product. If I want to give a machine that a child can tinker with, and has lots of support /docs on how to do cool shit with it, then this is probably one way. If thats too expensive, then the plain 500, for half the price.

glimshe 1y ago
What is there to tinker? Using the connector on the back? As you pointed out, you get that on the cheaper option. The mini PCs sold everywhere these days use standard Linux with over the counter components by Intel and AMD that are documented to death. They have the memory, faster CPU, fast storage, multiple HDMI outs, power switches etc. They run Windows if that's your thing. You can actually use them as your main computer if you are a teenager or light user. This is far from the British computers that theoretically inspired the foundation. Even the cheaper 500 isn't such a great value for real world computer education. I bet more adult hobbyists like me use them than actual children.
- KaiserPro 1y ago
  > counter components by Intel and AMD that are documented to death can you show me the GPIO library and documentation for a beelink n100? where are the i2c pins on the motherboard, do they come with headers, or do we need to solder them in? > Even the cheaper 500 isn't such a great value, unlike for instance, the foundation's (and mine) beloved ZX Spectrum. the non plus 500 is £84. The Zxspectrum would be £500 adjusted for inflation. a decent n100 (ie one that isn't a gamble) is £250, and again is for a different purpose.
- type0 1y ago
  I would argue that 400 is not a good value either, for that price you have to deal with occasionally broken file-system because caused by sd card and terrible keyboard. Not a good experience for beginner or a learning child. People like to criticise x64 but getting a thin client from ebay and ESP32 GPIO board is probably the best bang for your buck. No one buys raspberry pi to save money anymore, you buy it because you want to use Arm architecture and ability to use Android builds like LineageOS.

rldjbpin 1y ago

i come to now think of rpi as the "lego" of computing. just thinking in terms of sticker price misses the point.