4 ms·

I find it fun that alcohol increases DNA methylation, but we find now that having a rich social life decreases it. If you need any other reason to see the socie

I find it fun that alcohol increases DNA methylation, but we find now that having a rich social life decreases it. If you need any other reason to see the societal fitness of societal lubricants. I've cut way back into "maybe one once in a while" territory, but I also have regular social interactions with exactly two toddlers and one wife and that's about it. I've never been to AA, but I'm told it's the cues that get you, and I do admit the memories of beers + guitar hero or other such nonsense from old days is exactly what I want every time I open a beer. It's like that old rat experiment, where they gave them cocaine or heroine laced water + regular water, and they always preferred the the drugs, until there was a rich social life / environment, at which point they rarely did. Socializing is powerful stuff if you can find enough time to build up enough trust to just have a heap of fun for a few hours. I swear a side-splitting laugh fest adds years to your life. When is the last time you laughed so hard with friends you couldn't breathe?

HPsquared 1y ago
I never really do the full belly-laugh thing with friends or family. 90% of the time I'm alone in a room, seeing something funny on a screen.
anal_reactor 1y ago
I wish I had friends, but I also wish I had a Ferrari, the latter one might be reachable within my lifetime if I work hard for it. Wait, with a budget of €100 000 I could actually get some second-hand old shitty Ferrari. That's... surprisingly affordable. I mean buying this shit right now would be highly irresponsible, but I can see myself potentially buying one in far future. I just checked Lamborghini Murciélago, the dream sportscar of my childhood, and it goes for like €300 000. Hmmm... that's like, a lot of money for what is basically a toy, but if I really really really wanted that, it would be achievable within my lifetime without completely ruining me financially. https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=432670758&dam=false&isSearchRequest=true&ms=14600%3B9%3B%3B&od=up&ref=srp&refId=7d5723cf-e0fd-3d76-6dd4-2f6e798e70fe&s=Car&sb=p&searchId=7d5723cf-e0fd-3d76-6dd4-2f6e798e70fe&vc=Car https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=432670758... Look at this shit, it's beautiful. €260 000. Not now and not tomorrow, but totally achievable as a lifetime goal. What a day to be alive. Having a luxury sportscar is more realistic than having friends. Send immaterial help.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- HPsquared 1y ago
  Maybe you can make some friends in the quest for the Lamborghini. Or maybe you could form a group who collectively buy it?
  - anal_reactor 1y ago
    It used to be fashionable to collectively buy boats and vacation homes and other shit. Turns out, having a shared expensive thing quickly leads to disagreements.
    - bravetraveler 1y ago
      > Turns out, having a shared expensive thing quickly leads to disagreements. In this case, I'm guessing the first minor bit of body damage [gravel, whatever] or consumable replacements [tires, brakes, etc]. Ignoring the financial pressure/means aspect, preferences are what they are. Tire pressure, cleanliness, or what-have-you. Personally, I wouldn't buy a Lamborghini without breaking it/rebuilding several times over. Fancy car, want to see what it really has. Other people? Baby it to no end because it's so precious. They got a date tonight. All this to say: an old rustbox [or several] is probably the better group project. What little I knew of my Dad: demo derby, sounded great.
    - IncreasePosts 1y ago
      Buying a share is still very common in the personal aircraft world
- bix6 1y ago
  If you buy the Murci you’ll be invited to every cars and coffee so lots of potential friends there!
  - anal_reactor 1y ago
throaway1988 1y ago
that old rat experiment is considered bunkum now
- sejje 1y ago
  Why? By whom?
  - andrewl 1y ago
    The rat experiment is usually referred to as Rat Park: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park There are criticisms of it, some of which are in the criticisms section of the Wikipedia article, and look to be valid. I never liked when people talked about debunking an experiment that was honestly done and just needed refutation or at least correction. If researchers publish research that was honestly done and then later found to have statistical flaws, or that is disproved with a larger sample size or whatever, I wouldn’t say it had been debunked. I’d say it was refuted or corrected or refined or whatever. If it was a “research” study where the group publishing it knew is was junk designed to promote an agenda or sell a product, then the term debunked is fair.
    - jvanderbot 1y ago
      It's all fair. All studies are flawed but some are useful. As a paradigm shift for addiction I could see it being less than a home run. As a statement about happiness it's all well and good if for no other reason than an analogy and potential positive finding.
    - kridsdale1 1y ago
      FUN FACT: The lead researcher of Rat Park a few years later delivered me from the womb. My dad was doing his PhD there at SFU at the time.
teaearlgraycold 1y ago
> When is the last time you laughed so hard with friends you couldn't breathe? 2 weeks ago in Oaxaca with some friends. We were at dinner and one (a guy) mentioned the Mormon purity defying practice of soaking which sparked confusion from the other (a girl). So he explained it in Mandarin so the others in the restaurant wouldn’t understand. It’s not a language I speak but watching her face told me everything I needed to know.
- SoftTalker 1y ago
  Last time I laughed like that with friends I was probably 18 or 19. That was 40 years ago.
  - freedomben 1y ago
    Damn dude, I (truly) feel for you. It's increasingly rare for me too, but it's so healing. If you're comfortable sharing, whereabouts do you live? What are your political inclinations? (The latter I ask because it radically influences what you find funny, not because it matters otherwise). With no context, I highly recommend finding a comedy club near you and having a few drinks. It might take several attempts though so don't give up
    - ponector 1y ago
      I bet issue is not the lack of jokes around but friends.
- freedomben 1y ago
  Former Mormon here, not familiar with "Mormon purity defying practice of soaking". Some explanation is needed
  - kridsdale1 1y ago
    Google it, but not when you’re at work. It’s how teens fuck while keeping Jesus’ approval.
isamuel 1y ago
It’s not the cues that get you. That is an idea promoted largely by treatment centers and the rehab industry, who need to be able to plausibly claim they are teaching their customers how to avoid relapse. I’m a recovered alcoholic and I can assure you, my “cue” for drinking was being alive and awake at the same time. Your reaction is a sane and normal one: you remember a good time, and you have some inkling to recreate it. Certainly. And to most people that makes sense. But alcoholics are different from most people, and their understanding that is an essential first step to recovery.
- jvanderbot 1y ago
  That makes sense! I didn't mean to sweep the experience into a few pithy words. I'm past the edit window, but I"m glad you're pointing this out.
  - isamuel 1y ago
    Totally understand. With any luck, you and I have played two sides of a dialogue that’ll be read by someone else, for whom it might be quite useful. For that I thank you.
ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
Most folks aren't alcoholics. Maybe they did some beer shotgunning in college, but stopped. Heck, I've known folks that came out of combat, hooked on opiates, and quit. If you are one, though, there's nothing gonna keep you from the drink, except total abstinence, and some kind of structure (AA, NA, Church, Martial Arts, etc.). I'm a recovering addict (over 45 years), and participate in Fellowship. Gives me tremendous socialization.
- bossyTeacher 1y ago
  >some kind of structure Don't you just mean social activities? You don't need to accept metaphysical dogmas or engage in scheduled physical combat with other people to socialize.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
    Hey, thanks for redefining "structure." I guess it needed that. Sure, go ahead and do whatever you think works. If you're an alcoholic, it either will, or won't, work; with [rewards|consequences] to follow. If you're not, it probably won't hurt. In fact, it could definitely enrich your life.
    - bossyTeacher 1y ago
      I highly doubt there was ever any doubt about the benefits of socialization. Science just confirmed what used to be commonly held beliefs
      - ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
        Well, just speaking for myself, socialization is the least of the benefits of the structure I follow. That socialization is also incredibly deep. It's not your usual Kiwanis Club. I have learned that addicts (and alcoholics are just alcohol addicts), need a lot more than just "socialization." Most folks have no idea how to address true addiction. Well, they have "ideas," but very few are at all effective. > "The fact that I have no remedy for all the sorrows of the world is no reason for my accepting yours. It simply supports the strong probability that yours is a fake." > "There's always an easy solution to every human problem; Neat, plausible and wrong." - H. L. Mencken I certainly don't claim to have all the answers, but I know one that works for me, and I have seen a lot of people fail; often, spectacularly. It really is one of those "If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand." things.
majormajor 1y ago
Alcohol reduces inhibition but the real trick to lower your social inhibition is just practice. It's not really complex, it's like anything else you'd study - mindful, focused practice; pay attention to details; iterate.
- physicles 1y ago
  Could you give some specifics? For example, does this look like repeatedly trying things that make you a bit uncomfortable, and CBTing when you have those uncomfortable feelings? Is it helpful to do this with people you already feel safe around?
- erxam 1y ago
  Sure, it's simple, but it's extremely psychologically taxing. No surprise people rely so much on alcohol. I personally find alcohol to be vastly overrated for removing inhibitions. A few drinks and I'm still as tightly wound as ever. A lot of drinks and I end up having all sorts of unpleasant bodily effects instead.
  - rossant 1y ago
    Same. Maybe it just doesn't work on those with really deep introversion.

HPsquared 1y ago

I never really do the full belly-laugh thing with friends or family. 90% of the time I'm alone in a room, seeing something funny on a screen.

anal_reactor 1y ago

I wish I had friends, but I also wish I had a Ferrari, the latter one might be reachable within my lifetime if I work hard for it. Wait, with a budget of €100 000 I could actually get some second-hand old shitty Ferrari. That's... surprisingly affordable. I mean buying this shit right now would be highly irresponsible, but I can see myself potentially buying one in far future. I just checked Lamborghini Murciélago, the dream sportscar of my childhood, and it goes for like €300 000. Hmmm... that's like, a lot of money for what is basically a toy, but if I really really really wanted that, it would be achievable within my lifetime without completely ruining me financially. https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=432670758&dam=false&isSearchRequest=true&ms=14600%3B9%3B%3B&od=up&ref=srp&refId=7d5723cf-e0fd-3d76-6dd4-2f6e798e70fe&s=Car&sb=p&searchId=7d5723cf-e0fd-3d76-6dd4-2f6e798e70fe&vc=Car https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=432670758... Look at this shit, it's beautiful. €260 000. Not now and not tomorrow, but totally achievable as a lifetime goal. What a day to be alive. Having a luxury sportscar is more realistic than having friends. Send immaterial help.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
HPsquared 1y ago
Maybe you can make some friends in the quest for the Lamborghini. Or maybe you could form a group who collectively buy it?
- anal_reactor 1y ago
  It used to be fashionable to collectively buy boats and vacation homes and other shit. Turns out, having a shared expensive thing quickly leads to disagreements.
  - bravetraveler 1y ago
    > Turns out, having a shared expensive thing quickly leads to disagreements. In this case, I'm guessing the first minor bit of body damage [gravel, whatever] or consumable replacements [tires, brakes, etc]. Ignoring the financial pressure/means aspect, preferences are what they are. Tire pressure, cleanliness, or what-have-you. Personally, I wouldn't buy a Lamborghini without breaking it/rebuilding several times over. Fancy car, want to see what it really has. Other people? Baby it to no end because it's so precious. They got a date tonight. All this to say: an old rustbox [or several] is probably the better group project. What little I knew of my Dad: demo derby, sounded great.
  - IncreasePosts 1y ago
    Buying a share is still very common in the personal aircraft world
bix6 1y ago
If you buy the Murci you’ll be invited to every cars and coffee so lots of potential friends there!
- anal_reactor 1y ago

throaway1988 1y ago

that old rat experiment is considered bunkum now

sejje 1y ago
Why? By whom?
- andrewl 1y ago
  The rat experiment is usually referred to as Rat Park: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park There are criticisms of it, some of which are in the criticisms section of the Wikipedia article, and look to be valid. I never liked when people talked about debunking an experiment that was honestly done and just needed refutation or at least correction. If researchers publish research that was honestly done and then later found to have statistical flaws, or that is disproved with a larger sample size or whatever, I wouldn’t say it had been debunked. I’d say it was refuted or corrected or refined or whatever. If it was a “research” study where the group publishing it knew is was junk designed to promote an agenda or sell a product, then the term debunked is fair.
  - jvanderbot 1y ago
    It's all fair. All studies are flawed but some are useful. As a paradigm shift for addiction I could see it being less than a home run. As a statement about happiness it's all well and good if for no other reason than an analogy and potential positive finding.
  - kridsdale1 1y ago
    FUN FACT: The lead researcher of Rat Park a few years later delivered me from the womb. My dad was doing his PhD there at SFU at the time.

teaearlgraycold 1y ago

> When is the last time you laughed so hard with friends you couldn't breathe? 2 weeks ago in Oaxaca with some friends. We were at dinner and one (a guy) mentioned the Mormon purity defying practice of soaking which sparked confusion from the other (a girl). So he explained it in Mandarin so the others in the restaurant wouldn’t understand. It’s not a language I speak but watching her face told me everything I needed to know.

SoftTalker 1y ago
Last time I laughed like that with friends I was probably 18 or 19. That was 40 years ago.
- freedomben 1y ago
  Damn dude, I (truly) feel for you. It's increasingly rare for me too, but it's so healing. If you're comfortable sharing, whereabouts do you live? What are your political inclinations? (The latter I ask because it radically influences what you find funny, not because it matters otherwise). With no context, I highly recommend finding a comedy club near you and having a few drinks. It might take several attempts though so don't give up
  - ponector 1y ago
    I bet issue is not the lack of jokes around but friends.
freedomben 1y ago
Former Mormon here, not familiar with "Mormon purity defying practice of soaking". Some explanation is needed
- kridsdale1 1y ago
  Google it, but not when you’re at work. It’s how teens fuck while keeping Jesus’ approval.

isamuel 1y ago

It’s not the cues that get you. That is an idea promoted largely by treatment centers and the rehab industry, who need to be able to plausibly claim they are teaching their customers how to avoid relapse. I’m a recovered alcoholic and I can assure you, my “cue” for drinking was being alive and awake at the same time. Your reaction is a sane and normal one: you remember a good time, and you have some inkling to recreate it. Certainly. And to most people that makes sense. But alcoholics are different from most people, and their understanding that is an essential first step to recovery.

jvanderbot 1y ago
That makes sense! I didn't mean to sweep the experience into a few pithy words. I'm past the edit window, but I"m glad you're pointing this out.
- isamuel 1y ago
  Totally understand. With any luck, you and I have played two sides of a dialogue that’ll be read by someone else, for whom it might be quite useful. For that I thank you.

ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago

Most folks aren't alcoholics. Maybe they did some beer shotgunning in college, but stopped. Heck, I've known folks that came out of combat, hooked on opiates, and quit. If you are one, though, there's nothing gonna keep you from the drink, except total abstinence, and some kind of structure (AA, NA, Church, Martial Arts, etc.). I'm a recovering addict (over 45 years), and participate in Fellowship. Gives me tremendous socialization.

bossyTeacher 1y ago
>some kind of structure Don't you just mean social activities? You don't need to accept metaphysical dogmas or engage in scheduled physical combat with other people to socialize.
- ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
  Hey, thanks for redefining "structure." I guess it needed that. Sure, go ahead and do whatever you think works. If you're an alcoholic, it either will, or won't, work; with [rewards|consequences] to follow. If you're not, it probably won't hurt. In fact, it could definitely enrich your life.
  - bossyTeacher 1y ago
    I highly doubt there was ever any doubt about the benefits of socialization. Science just confirmed what used to be commonly held beliefs
    - ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
      Well, just speaking for myself, socialization is the least of the benefits of the structure I follow. That socialization is also incredibly deep. It's not your usual Kiwanis Club. I have learned that addicts (and alcoholics are just alcohol addicts), need a lot more than just "socialization." Most folks have no idea how to address true addiction. Well, they have "ideas," but very few are at all effective. > "The fact that I have no remedy for all the sorrows of the world is no reason for my accepting yours. It simply supports the strong probability that yours is a fake." > "There's always an easy solution to every human problem; Neat, plausible and wrong." - H. L. Mencken I certainly don't claim to have all the answers, but I know one that works for me, and I have seen a lot of people fail; often, spectacularly. It really is one of those "If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand." things.

majormajor 1y ago

Alcohol reduces inhibition but the real trick to lower your social inhibition is just practice. It's not really complex, it's like anything else you'd study - mindful, focused practice; pay attention to details; iterate.

physicles 1y ago
Could you give some specifics? For example, does this look like repeatedly trying things that make you a bit uncomfortable, and CBTing when you have those uncomfortable feelings? Is it helpful to do this with people you already feel safe around?
erxam 1y ago
Sure, it's simple, but it's extremely psychologically taxing. No surprise people rely so much on alcohol. I personally find alcohol to be vastly overrated for removing inhibitions. A few drinks and I'm still as tightly wound as ever. A lot of drinks and I end up having all sorts of unpleasant bodily effects instead.
- rossant 1y ago
  Same. Maybe it just doesn't work on those with really deep introversion.