9 ms·
Samsung now owns Denon, Bowers and Wilkins, Marantz, Polk, and more audio brands
- Gigachad 1y agoGuessing this doesn’t affect Denon DJ / inmusic?
- input_sh 1y agoinMusic is just a different conglomerate owning Akai, Alesis, Moog, M-Audio, Denon DJ, Numark, Rane... If Samsung buys them as well (which didn't happen right now, but I'm sure it's what they're aiming for), the monopolization will be complete and the Live Nation-ification can truly begin. A similar story is happening to festivals (especially across Europe), with KKR-owned Superstruct Entertainment now having majority stake in like a hundred or so music festivals.
- lomase 1y agoinMusic or Music Tribe, pick your poison.
- theandrewbailey 1y agoCan we expect the Samsungization of these brands? Should we be on the lookout for locked-down audio ecosystems, ever more extraneous features, phone apps, and smart appliances? Ewww.
- jen20 1y agoI'd be particularly worried about the ones with screens [1]. [1]: https://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-confirms-smart-refrigerator-ads-are-coming-3598848/ https://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-confirms-smart-refr...
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- 63stack 1y agoI wouldn't put it past Samsung to find a way to inject ads into gadgets even without screens. Like mandatory open the samsung app every time you connect your headphones and such. They are scummy as fuck.
- catlikesshrimp 1y agoWhy not an audio ad? They can buffer the next couple ads when connected to the internet. You can also have the app, monenitazion is not picky.
- koolba 1y agoWhy wouldn’t you want your speaker to automatically play ads when your music is paused? We can even have them be relevant ads by having them covertly listen to your conversations to analyze for context sensitive keywords.
- JKCalhoun 1y agoI was in a Target yesterday and saw a Samsung TV with a "warning" label on the box. Essentially: "some features not available without consent to tracking of viewing habits". I should take a photo and post.
- vincnetas 1y agothis would be express ticket to court in EU.
- sejje 1y agoThe agreement, or posting the photo?
- drnick1 1y agoAh yes the EU, that country aggressively trying to pass encryption backdoor laws.
- tavavex 1y agoIt's not self-contradictory at all. Proponents of Chat Control want to be able to spy on their own citizens, and have the technological wiggle room to expand their powers to collect data in the future. At the same time, they generally don't want customers to be abused by large companies that strong-arm them into increasingly lopsided contracts by moving in unison and using the average person's technical illiteracy against them. For people like us, these two things are related because we don't want every bit of our data collected, examined and studied for either tracking or profit - but for them, companies and governments operate on entirely different levels of rights and expectations. Also, the EU isn't even remotely like "a country".
- theandrewbailey 1y ago> Also, the EU isn't even remotely like "a country". The EU has a currency, parliament, elections, laws, presidents, courts, treaties, and is thinking about forming an army. That sounds an awful lot like a country to me.
- mkozlows 1y agoSamsung has owned Harman Kardon and its stable of brands for a long time, and they've been mostly fine. Mainly, I think Samsung doesn't care about them except as names to license in "exclusive" partnerships with automakers.
- RossBencina 1y agoHarman Automotive does a lot more than license names.
- Jackson__ 1y agoI just bought a Samsung Galaxy Tab recently. Of course I was well aware of the death of the 3.5mm headphone port, but as I plugged in my 3.5mm to usb-c adapter I was greeted with a new message: "Analog USB C Audio Unsupported.". I tried a pair of regular off-brand usb-c headphones too, which too resulted in the same, with no audio output. How this is not behavior deserving of some kind of EU fine is a complete mystery to me.
- Kirby64 1y agoThe message you’re describing sounds like it (and most devices) telling you nicely it doesn’t support the legacy, now removed from the spec, function to do direct analog audio over USB-C. I.e., the DAC is built into the phone instead of being built into the dongle. Most devices do not support analog USB-C audio, and frankly I understand why given how affordable DAC based dongles are these days.
- Jackson__ 1y agoAll of my cheaper chinese devices without 3.5mm do support it though. It is only this premium tablet that I paid triple what I'd normally spend on which does not work.
- Kirby64 1y agoAnd your point? Samsung is likely more adherent to the USB-C spec than cheap Chinese devices. Audio Accessory Mode (the technical term for the analog audio mode in USB-C) was removed as an optionally supported mode from the specification last year. Adoption among flagship phones was basically nil for years. It's basically the worst of all worlds in terms of complexity: you still need a DAC/ADC in the phone AND you need a muxing switch to switch between data pins and analog audio. For context on why it was removed: it was replaced with a moisture detection functionality, which can be used to monitor and protect the USB-C port against shorts from moisture ingress into the charging port.
- NetMageSCW 1y agoJust buy the $9 Apple adapter and you will have a better setup than those old Chinese cheap tablets.
- kurayashi 1y agoI recently had to setup my Denon Home Smart Speaker again after I moved. I’m pretty sure that I didn’t need a HEOS account the first time I set it up. On the second setup it was required to configure the WIFI. But the Ethernet Port worked fine without an account. I bought the speaker together with a Denon receiver ~3.5 years ago.
- kwillets 1y agoI worked at Samsung and saw plenty of enshittification (including losing my own job in some kind of sketchy power struggle), but oddly their audio stuff didn't seem like a bad deal. In TV's they support the higher quality home theater scenario while still making most of their audio money from soundbars that can't compete on audio quality. They're well aware of that fact, and their strategy seems to be to keep all options on the table. One of the TV execs is an audiophile FWIW.
- aucisson_masque 1y ago> saw plenty of enshittification you can't say that and not share some sample of that :)
- kwillets 1y agoI built the ads audience system. Most of the effects of that are already known here; Ads became a big trophy within the org; everybody had to have ads and post-sale revenue, even the fridge people. Sometime around when the CEO got out of prison a bunch of weirdness occurred. Good managers left, bad managers got hired, and everything became top-down. The group head "retired" but last year un-retired in a different position; I didn't know you could do that. Engineering-wise it went from technical free rein to "only use this suspiciously chummy cloud vendor" in a few months. I never got to the bottom of that deal, but costs exploded, and revenue flattened.
- aucisson_masque 1y agoI have the feeling that Korea has quite an issue with corruption. You don't need corruption to make bad decisions, though.
- subscribed 1y agoAnd *ads*.
- notatoad 1y agotechnically samsung didn't buy these brands, Harman did. And samsung has owned Harman (including JBL and AKG) since 2018. so you should probably expect that these brands will continue operating the way that Harman, JBL,and AKG have since they were acquired. which is to say, pretty independently of anything samsung does.
- NewJazz 1y agoFwiw after Harman bought AKG, the Austrian engineers were laid off or left the company. There is a company called Austrian Audio that is more of a spiritual successor to AKG. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_Audio https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_Audio
- mc32 1y agoThere are quite a few independent old British brands in audio. I hope they stay small niche and independent in the face of consolidation and some genuine competition from China. There are Danish and Finnish brands too and the odd French one. Anyway I hope they can remain independent even as they move some parts of their manufacturing to Asia. Curiously you can follow some designers from shop to shop as they move in their career evolution.
- bostik 1y agoAnecdote and personal observation - the odd Finnish brands essentially catapulted from niche obscurity to wider recognition 15-20 years ago. Until then in "the common mind" there was Genelec, and then a vast gulf before anyone else. Sometime before 2010 Genelec started to focus their offering to two markets: the absolute top-end studio kit, and at the same time expanding downwards in the market towards the top end of consumer range. While they retreated from the space between the two, other local players[tm] were happy to cover the now vacant hi-fi enthusiast space. For some reason the same locales that originate lots of heavy-metal bands also happen to sport a concentration of high-end audio equipment shops. (Happy owner of a pair of Amphion monitors. Described by my audiophile friends as "unforgivingly accurate".)
- mc32 1y agoI love the small brands like Amphion, Buchardt, Castle, Atoll, etc. To borrow from the Smiths some are bigger than others…
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- johnebgd 1y agoNiche players like SVS Sound or Devialet are much more appealing now that Samsung owns these storied brands.
- buryat 1y agoI have a B&W 700 series speakers and a devialet phanthom 108db, was quite surprised at the quality that devialet delivers
- isoprophlex 1y ago> "Sound United’s impressive roster of brands is rooted in a deep passion for sound, innovation, and commitment to quality that aligns with Harman’s own values" "They gave us money lmao"
- Theodores 1y agoIt is interesting how the market for high end audio has changed with the demise of physical media. I don't associate these high end audio brands with the home, however I do associate them with the options on expensive cars. For the average person with a big TV and standard issue sound bar, an expensive home audio setup has limited appeal. What they have is good enough. However, in the automotive market it is a very different game. For starters, if you have to pay a five or six figure sum for your vehicle, where you are already in the game of specifying options, that expensive audio option isn't that expensive when compared to all of the other 'necessary' options, so you might as well tick the box. With high end cars, resale value matters. If you have the base specification then this isn't going to fare too well in the second hand market. With some options you are never going to get your money back, but some are 'mandatory', particularly if they are bundled. It seems to me that this is the lucrative niche for high end audio, not the home or other markets. Plus you can sell someone a ridiculous amount of speakers, for example 22 of them, whereas, in the home, nobody has 22 speakers in their living room.
- maqp 1y ago>an expensive home audio setup has limited appeal The thing is a sound bar can cost more than 2 grand, which gets you nice pair of B&W two-way speakers and an entry-level Marantz, a setup that beats the sound bar any day. Of course I'm a bit unsure what kind of number's you're speaking of.
- bluedino 1y ago$150 soundbar setup from Best Buy is good enough for "most people"
- Arubis 1y agoAnd for those that still care and are willing to put in the legwork, $150 will score you a nice pair of Advents or similar on Craigslist, and almost any receiver you’ll find at your local thrift store will beat the pants off a cheap soundbar.
- simpaticoder 1y agoThe home audio market has moved on, leaving this consolidation in its wake. There is something wonderful about listening to physical music recordings without using a screen. It's like cursive writing, or knowing how to drive a stick-shift. But barring a Carrington event, or some moderate-to-severe internet catastrophe, its hard to motivate the utility of this kind of "middle path asceticism". "Shed no tears," the futurists say, since not too long ago most if not all "educated people" knew Greek and Latin, how to use a slide-rule, and how to saddle and ride a horse, and we don't particularly miss those things. I would argue caution, not least of which because this argument is too closely aligned with the market forces that know it's far more profitable to charge you per action than per object. It's always hard to know if we lost something important, or shucked off a barnacle holding us back, until we're looking back. I believe there is a sweet spot between the endless toil of "no technology" and the profound ignorance (and helplessness) that comes from putting everything behind a screen. I suspect that the hi-fi gear between the 1970's and 2010 will continue to be collectible for this reason for at least 100 years.
- deadbabe 1y agoIt is more romantic to put on a vinyl record than to play digital music. The physicality of it is a ritual that leads us back into a more physical world, where the things that exist are what you can touch and feel, and every action and reaction comes naturally as a result of raw physical contact, with nothing in between.
- Farbklex 1y agoYes, ritual is the right word. I used to do it quite a lot during COVID with cassettes and CDs while working. Helped me to more consciously get into work mode.
- Wowfunhappy 1y ago...okay, but like, couldn't we choose a medium that doesn't physically wear out from repeated playback? CDs just seem so much better. Yes it's technically digital, but can you tell?
- ksec 1y agoLuckily Cambridge Audio is still fully owned by its founder. ( Or same person running it for the past 30 years. ) Sad when I first heard B&W sold 10 years ago. I had their 600 series and still wish someday I could afford their top range model.
- chrisweekly 1y agoHsu Research is also independent and makes excellent subwoofers and speakers.
- linker3000 1y agoI don't really keep up with the hifi market and seeing the headline was an eye opener. I used to work in a building next to a B&W place where they either made speakers or at least the drive units. The day was punctuated regularly by rather loud audio frequency sweeps!
- walthamstow 1y agoI've always liked Dali for speakers. Still independent and Danish-owned so, like Lego, unlikely to sell out.
- maqp 1y agoDali isn't as fancy on the outside as stuff like B&W but oh boy the sound. Zensor 3s sounded a lot better than CM5s, that cost quite a bit more. Still the best budget 2-way I've ever heard. Also the Oberon 7s pack incredible sound for a price that's closer to B&W's shelf speakers than floor speakers.
- stego-tech 1y agoYou and me both. Love my 600 series-based surround setup, but I dunno if the 800 series would be worth the asking price relative to other, independently-owned brands in the space. I'm firmly in my "I want to support good humans doing good work" phase of life, and that's increasingly incompatible with large corporate conglomerates relying on huge data sets to justify price increases, corner cutting, and offshoring.
- 1y ago
- xattt 1y agoWhat is left? Any recommendations for a modern-day receiver for two-zone 5.1.2 and a 2.1 setup?
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- baq 1y agoGet the denon x1800 while it’s still available and you’ll have to worry about this question in 2035… come to think about it, maybe get two.
- leptons 1y agoeBay. Plenty of excellent vintage un-shittified sound equipment for sale. You may need to re-cap the amplifiers, but the speakers should still sound perfect.
- tptacek 1y agoYou're doing 5.1.2 on vintage equipment?
- leptons 1y agoBuy enough speakers and you can do x.y.z
- tptacek 1y agoCan you? Doesn't the receiver have to know how to decode it?
- leptons 1y agoIt's absolutely possible to do whatever amount of channels you want, just buy enough amplifiers. You may need other equipment to "decode", but it's easily possible to get a media PC with 7.1 analog audio outputs, or more if you really wanted to do it for whatever purpose you need. None of this is really impossible, it just takes money.
- AfterHIA 1y agoThis is tangentially related-- I was a professional guitar player in the my 20's. When we were kids there were a handful of really great bands in the western United States like The Warlocks, The Cosmonauts, The Shivas, Super 78!, and especially the Brian Jonestown Massacre that thrived off of a huge culture of music enthusiasm that was especially, "tapes and records first. CD's are for the car." Now outside of a handful of stalwart groups I don't see anybody making, "canonical" rock n' roll music in the, "post Velvet Underground" sense. It's, "correlation vs causation" but I can't help but feel that it was Spotify and streaming that killed this culture. Music became an, "everybody" thing that had no barrier to entry. Music subculture died. Fashion came next. Film has been declining since the 2000's. I can stand you destroying my country's political culture but should have left it alone. It feels like an Albigensian Crusade.
- mickeyp 1y agoYeesh. "Those darn 40+-something millennials and their differing tastes!" Rock 'died' because it's been around for 50 years; were the favourite of boomers who ensured it always had air-time; and now they're out to pasture and other music styles reign. My dad was a pro drummer in the 70s and hated everything that wasn't rock or metal. He was incapable of appreciating anything else. Or so he said. As a kid of the 90s, I could never quite find music that fit me. Sure, I liked some rock and roll, pop, and so on --- but when I was first introduced to techno (Antiloop - Believe, to be specific) at a LAN party I knew I'd found my home: techno and then trance. But good luck finding Antiloop or the nascent trance on MTV or commercial radio in the 90s. The people who ran those things didn't like it, know about it, listen to it, or felt it had commercial value. So I had to learn about it from randos at a LAN party.
- AfterHIA 1y agoCanonical rock n' roll in the minds of, "the initiated" might include groups like Kraftwerk and Neu! which laid the foundation for most forms of electronic music. It definitely includes the mother of all electronic music Delia Derbyshire (ask Peter Kember!) You might know her from the original Doctor Who theme music. Dig the link below for the arguably the first EDM song ever made. Keep in mind this is pre-synths-- it's all tape manipulation like The Beatles would end up copying on, "Strawberry Fields Forever." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwQIgGQLOQ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwQIgGQLOQ8 I like all, "genres" and types of music but there's a certain high level of quality that exists in a continuum of music going back a long time. It's hard to define in a formal way. It's there in John Coltrane. It lives sophomorically in The Velvet Underground, Herman's Hermits, and the other, "Bubblegum" groups as well as the Fuzz-Psych-Garage bands that live in the Nuggets compilations like ? And The Mysterians. It's played on Rickenbacker guitars. It has a fuzz pedal and it knows how to use it. It lived on John Peel's radio program. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62XRy-jFCm8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62XRy-jFCm8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQdo8efJtSs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQdo8efJtSs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ToJ2mmlkiE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ToJ2mmlkiE A special one for you the techno fan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zndpi8tNZyQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zndpi8tNZyQ Cheerio. EDIT: Worth noting I'm 34 so don't give me the Grandpa treatment.
- Dwedit 1y agoLiterally, the only thing I know about "Denon" is that they once tried to sell a $500 Ethernet cable. https://www.cnet.com/culture/denons-500-ethernet-cable/ https://www.cnet.com/culture/denons-500-ethernet-cable/
- chihuahua 1y agoBut the 0s and 1s are so much warmer with that cable! Well worth the price.
- magicalhippo 1y agoSlightly surprised I haven't seen a tube-based Ethernet preamp. You know, to take away the harshness of those digital square wave signals.
- maqp 1y agoSlightly unrelated, but the coolest audio-ethernet cable I've seen is one that goes inside an XLR shell Socket: https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Snake-Over-Ethernet/dp/B0CH3VJLCJ https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Snake-Over-Ethernet/dp/... Plug: https://www.gear4music.se/sv/G4M/Neutrik-NE8MC-1-EtherCON-RJ45-XLR-Style-Cable-Connector/2FJD https://www.gear4music.se/sv/G4M/Neutrik-NE8MC-1-EtherCON-RJ... Professional Audio has zero time for snake oil, I bet these will never suffer from broken clips.
- beAbU 1y agoThat "socket" you are showing is something else. It's an xlr to ethernet adapter. Cat5 cable, with it's 4x twisted pairs is an excellent cable for transmitting balanced audio signals over long distances. One ethernet cable can transmit 4 such signals. The signal running in the ethernet is still the analogue signal though. So it's quite popular these days do use ethernet cable for long signal runs in live audio installations. Much cheaper than traditional snakes too. Your second link is a rj45-in-xlr-shell plug. It's used where you need a robust and reliable rj45 connection that can withstand more abuse than a typical "naked" rj45. I think it's fairly popular in industrial computing and military settings. There are various types of plugs that are embedded in an xlr shell for the same robustness reason.
- cosmic_cheese 1y agoI’ve been pleasantly surprised by the length of time that Marantz has continued to support and ship updates for my receiver, which I’ve owed since ~2016. It’s not often that anything with software gets that sort of attention for that long. I hope this doesn’t spell the end of that.
- prmoustache 1y agoWhy does it need updates for?
- cosmic_cheese 1y agoThe main changes I've seen have been for keeping support for streaming services like Spotify working, but there's been a few bug fixes too.
- bob1029 1y agoI see a lot of lamentation for high end audio going away but the reality is that it's not that hard to achieve if you are truly interested in its effects. You can build loudspeaker cabinets yourself without a lot of skills. There are kits everywhere. These will dramatically outperform anything you can buy retail even if you do a mediocre job of assembly. Most aspects of a high quality audio solution involve the room itself, not the equipment inside of it. Building something that replicates (for instance) the Polk RTI series would take a weekend for a total noob if working from a kit. You can buy pro amplifiers like QSC and Behringer that satisfy whatever topology and power level you desire. Vendors like MiniDSP give you everything you need to build an active crossover solution in an afternoon. Simply knowing that these things are possible is the first step to achieving them. DIY: https://www.parts-express.com/speaker-components/speaker-subwoofer-kits/speakertype/Floor%20Standing https://www.parts-express.com/speaker-components/speaker-sub... Pre-built: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=43155 https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=43155 Emotiva is also a very good vendor.
- klodolph 1y agoYou don’t even need to DIY, you can just pay an amount of money similar to the cost of 1970s hi-fi systems after adjusting for inflation. The nice hi-fi systems are still around, but they don’t look at all like old hi-fi (why would they? both taste and technology have shifted drastically) and you don’t see them available at retail brick-and-mortar stores like Best Buy.
- SSLy 1y agoWhich brands are that?
- bazmattaz 1y agoOhh cool that’s a new hobby unlocked. Could a DIY speaker really sound as good as a high end speaker?
- bob1029 1y agoVirtually all of it is about the spatial volume and stiffness of the cabinet material & design. The actual type of material, dimensions and surface finish are almost entirely irrelevant to performance. MDF is dirt cheap and highly performant. I've built a ~700 liter subwoofer using 24" diameter Sonotube concrete forum material ($200-300 right now). The circular shape means that the only unbalanced forces occur at the ends of the tube. Fortunately, this is also where you put the driver (bottom) and the port (top) along with reinforcing material. You can make incredibly deep & powerful LFE cabinetry without even breaking 200lbs of total weight. Mine would go flat to 13Hz and could easily be moved by 1 person.
- jmyeet 1y agoI really wish there was a simple solution for streaming audio in a stereo like box. And no, Sonos isn’t it. Neither are the “smart” speakers. I have several frustrations with Sonos. Just the other day I was trying to setup a 10+ year old Sonos. Doesn’t work with the latest software. So I have to download a different controller. Couldn’t get it to work. This isn’t something that should deprecate that quickly. Nest does the same thing. Almost every “smart” appliance has a terrible network stack too. Like my washing machine can get an address on a mobile hotspot but not on my home network for some reason. And the errors are generic and useless. We should be able to use Bluetooth or NFC or similar to configure the devices seamlessly by now. Back to Sonos, I used to stream Internet radio. Every now and again it would drop out and I’d have to hit the power button. Why? It should be fault tolerant enough to do this on its own. Interesting things like Spotify always seemed way harder than they should be. As for smart speakers, thanks but no thanks. I just don’t want an always on cloud-connected microphone in my house. So I just end up using my phone and a Bluetooth speaker. I wish there was something better.
- NetMageSCW 1y agoYamaha makes receivers with streaming connectivity (e.g. supporting Pandora, Spotify, Amazon Music, SiriusXM, TIDAL, Deezer) for home theaters that work well.
- mlrtime 1y agoHave you you looked at Wiim? I gave up on sonos for Wiim and its not bad. Use their amplifier or bring your own.
- schrijver 1y ago> I really wish there was a simple solution for streaming audio in a stereo like box You can turn any normal hi-fi setup into streaming speakers in various ways. I’m using a fifteen year old Airport express right now. Works well, lossless, although only for Apple devices. If you mainly listen to Spotify, connecting an old laptop or phone works great too (through Spotify Connect — it’s resilient because it doesn’t need to stream the actual audio). Finally a bluetooth dongle that you connect to your amp is platform agnostic, the only downside being that bluetooth always uses lossy compression. These are the cheapish ways, hi-fi companies also make streaming boxes to add to a setup but I never tried those. I’ve also tried amp/receivers with Airplay on them and that seems to work just fine.
- 1970-01-01 1y agoGet off my lawn, Samsung. Your "Hi-Fi audio" has been nothing more than speaker redesign paired with the flavor-of-the-year codecs and "we put X chip in it" gimmicks for decades. I don't need nor do I want my living room to sound like the Sydney Opera House. Nor do I have the patience to set up 10 mini speakers on my surround system. Your engineering craftsmanship to build true novelty into an audio brand has been gone since the 2000s. Buying more patents won't solve it.
- tracerbulletx 1y agoIt's a special kind of messed up that not only has consolidation broken competition in many ways, they also get to create the illusion of competition by pretending to be different organizations.
- baxuz 1y agoI hope this doesn't imply more Samsung enshittification. I was hoping to get a Denon receiver to fix the Samsung AV issues present on their TVs and sound bars