5 ms·

> proponents of mechanical keyboards say you need fewer keys than a regular keyboard, for _reasons_ That's a bit of a generalization. Mechanical keyboards like

by Twey 1y ago

> proponents of mechanical keyboards say you need fewer keys than a regular keyboard, for _reasons_ That's a bit of a generalization. Mechanical keyboards like the Hyper7 exist that have enough for even the most key-hungry typist. If you want an ergonomic mechanical keyboard with many keys there are also some of those out there, like the Kinesis line or the Glove80. That said, one thing people mean by ‘ergonomic’ is ‘less stretching’, and by geometry more keys = more stretching, which is why there's significant overlap between the ergonomic keyboard crowd and the few-keys crowd. When I first got an Ergodox I too thought I would struggle with few keys, but over time I found I prefer to have the keys in a comfortable position with a layer modifier than to have them off in Narnia where I have to shift my whole wrist to reach them. (Because subcultures are subdivided recursively, the _gaming_ mechanical keyboard subcrowd also often like small keyboards, for reasons I don't really know but are presumably quite different from the reasons the ergonomic mechanical keyboard subcrowd have.)

cosmic_cheese 1y ago
There are plenty of folks in the community who land somewhere in the middle, too. 60%/65% are all pretty popular and don't go off the deep end in cutting down keys. I'm personally partial to the HHKB layout, which is like 60% with inspiration from boards associated with the original Mac and with old UNIX boxes.
- scuff3d 1y ago
  I got a 75% Keychron a few years ago. Really like it, but I've been considering finding a more portable 65%. The Keychron is great but it's pretty heavy so it's annoying to carry around. Any suggestions?
  - cosmic_cheese 1y ago
    Can’t recommend anything personally since my boards are mostly group but one-offs (other than the HHKBs), but I think Keychron has low profile mechanical 65% boards if that’s of interest.
mewse-hn 1y ago
I'm a mech keyboard enthusiast and an ansi 104 full size ride-or-die > (Because subcultures are subdivided recursively, the _gaming_ mechanical keyboard subcrowd also often like small keyboards, for reasons I don't really know but are presumably quite different from the reasons the ergonomic mechanical keyboard subcrowd have.) The explanation I've always heard for TKL for gamers is that removing the numpad leaves more room for the vigorous, professional mousing they have to do (I'm skeptical)
- jacobolus 1y ago
  You're skeptical that some people need to use the mouse a lot? Or you're skeptical that bringing the mouse closer to the mouse hand's typing position / closer to the body improves comfort? I found that when, e.g., using Photoshop, a keyboard without a number pad was a nontrivial improvement.
- rollcat 1y ago
  Many popular games are physically and mentally demanding. You do need "vigorous, professional mousing" for any kind of shooter or RTS, on top of actual thinking and reacting. Playing in teams requires you to type to coordinate with teammates. The language floats from cryptic to hectic: all sorts of acronyms, jargon, combining text with "body language", etc. Regardless, typing with both hands is still faster. You can also buy a detachable numpad.
- ziml77 1y ago
  I just like how everything aligns on my desk better (in terms of comfort) with a TKL board. And I was never a numpad user anyway. Maybe if I was typing numbers into spreadsheets all day I would have a different opinion on the necessity of the numpad
- Twey 1y ago
  That makes sense! I'm a split keyboard user and for mouse-and-keyboard style games I used to move the right half of my keyboard out of the way of the mouse.
artimaeis 1y ago
I like smaller keyboards (80% or less) in both gaming and professional work because it lets me keep my hands and shoulders in a more natural position when I’m using the mouse. A person with broader shoulders would probably have a different experience, but a full keyboard makes me feel like my mouse is either too close to the keyboard or too far to rest my shoulder.
kstrauser 1y ago
My parents sent me to years of piano lessons before I ever touched a computer keyboard, and my typing reflects it. I don't move my wrist. I move my entire hand. This drove my high school typing teacher nuts, but I was the fastest in class by a wide margin so he didn't push back too hard. I've tried traditional home-row typing but I just can't do it. And after all these years, my wrists still don't hurt at all. I can't prove that there's a connection, but I strongly suspect it.
- rollcat 1y ago
  > This drove my high school typing teacher nuts [...] I think that's typical for over-achievers.
- seec 1y ago
  I think it's how it should be done. You just executed the task intuitively, without any preconceived instruction as to the "best" way to do things. Most of the time, those selling the best way to do stuff have a rigid way of thinking/operating and seem to have rules for everything in life and they think it applies to everyone the same, even though we are clearly all different. Very often it's actually counterproductive and doesn't get you much better performance, touch typing is one of those things. It's a rigid theory made to form human robots that would spend all day typing stuff from other peoples (basically secretaries, re-copying stuff or typing dictated material). It focuses on typing speed at the expense of everything else. And is completely pointless because the speed difference between a touch typist and a self taught typist is completely negligible for 99% of tasks.
- Twey 1y ago
  Pianists are very (like 60%) susceptible to RSI, especially if they have small hands [1] (= lots of stretching motions). I think it's a tradeoff — moving your forearm around spares your wrists, but puts more strain on your elbows. I wouldn't be surprised if it's better overall, though, just because it involves a wider variety of movements. [1]: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12611474/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12611474/ Anecdotally, I have large hands (or at least long fingers) and early piano lessons, and as a self-taught chaos typist on QWERTY I struggled with RSI at a relatively young age until I switched to more traditional touch-typing on Dvorak.
tcmart14 1y ago
It's changed since now Ive got the ZSA Voyager and put my trackball mouse in the center, over all, it is still a small set up. But prior to, I did 60/65% keyboards. A lot of it for me was just a spacing issue. Full size keyboards are nice, but take up a lot of room with a mouse and then wanting to also use a notebook at my desk for notes and designing.
utopiah 1y ago
> proponents of mechanical keyboards say you need fewer keys than a regular keyboard, for _reasons_ Well "reasons" is quite obviously travel distance and thus time. If your fingers are always on, or nearby, the resting position (home row) then you go faster and don't stretch in repeated weird (ergonomically speaking) ways. This though comes at a BIG cost, namely layers and other tricks to make "far" thing stay "close", which is cognitive. You have to remember where things are and how to activate them. Until it comes second nature because you drilled for so long then it might not be worth it for most. The "reasons" are not arbitrary.

by Twey 1y ago

cosmic_cheese 1y ago

There are plenty of folks in the community who land somewhere in the middle, too. 60%/65% are all pretty popular and don't go off the deep end in cutting down keys. I'm personally partial to the HHKB layout, which is like 60% with inspiration from boards associated with the original Mac and with old UNIX boxes.

scuff3d 1y ago
I got a 75% Keychron a few years ago. Really like it, but I've been considering finding a more portable 65%. The Keychron is great but it's pretty heavy so it's annoying to carry around. Any suggestions?
- cosmic_cheese 1y ago
  Can’t recommend anything personally since my boards are mostly group but one-offs (other than the HHKBs), but I think Keychron has low profile mechanical 65% boards if that’s of interest.

mewse-hn 1y ago

I'm a mech keyboard enthusiast and an ansi 104 full size ride-or-die > (Because subcultures are subdivided recursively, the _gaming_ mechanical keyboard subcrowd also often like small keyboards, for reasons I don't really know but are presumably quite different from the reasons the ergonomic mechanical keyboard subcrowd have.) The explanation I've always heard for TKL for gamers is that removing the numpad leaves more room for the vigorous, professional mousing they have to do (I'm skeptical)

jacobolus 1y ago
You're skeptical that some people need to use the mouse a lot? Or you're skeptical that bringing the mouse closer to the mouse hand's typing position / closer to the body improves comfort? I found that when, e.g., using Photoshop, a keyboard without a number pad was a nontrivial improvement.
rollcat 1y ago
Many popular games are physically and mentally demanding. You do need "vigorous, professional mousing" for any kind of shooter or RTS, on top of actual thinking and reacting. Playing in teams requires you to type to coordinate with teammates. The language floats from cryptic to hectic: all sorts of acronyms, jargon, combining text with "body language", etc. Regardless, typing with both hands is still faster. You can also buy a detachable numpad.
ziml77 1y ago
I just like how everything aligns on my desk better (in terms of comfort) with a TKL board. And I was never a numpad user anyway. Maybe if I was typing numbers into spreadsheets all day I would have a different opinion on the necessity of the numpad
Twey 1y ago
That makes sense! I'm a split keyboard user and for mouse-and-keyboard style games I used to move the right half of my keyboard out of the way of the mouse.

artimaeis 1y ago

I like smaller keyboards (80% or less) in both gaming and professional work because it lets me keep my hands and shoulders in a more natural position when I’m using the mouse. A person with broader shoulders would probably have a different experience, but a full keyboard makes me feel like my mouse is either too close to the keyboard or too far to rest my shoulder.

kstrauser 1y ago

My parents sent me to years of piano lessons before I ever touched a computer keyboard, and my typing reflects it. I don't move my wrist. I move my entire hand. This drove my high school typing teacher nuts, but I was the fastest in class by a wide margin so he didn't push back too hard. I've tried traditional home-row typing but I just can't do it. And after all these years, my wrists still don't hurt at all. I can't prove that there's a connection, but I strongly suspect it.

rollcat 1y ago
> This drove my high school typing teacher nuts [...] I think that's typical for over-achievers.
seec 1y ago
I think it's how it should be done. You just executed the task intuitively, without any preconceived instruction as to the "best" way to do things. Most of the time, those selling the best way to do stuff have a rigid way of thinking/operating and seem to have rules for everything in life and they think it applies to everyone the same, even though we are clearly all different. Very often it's actually counterproductive and doesn't get you much better performance, touch typing is one of those things. It's a rigid theory made to form human robots that would spend all day typing stuff from other peoples (basically secretaries, re-copying stuff or typing dictated material). It focuses on typing speed at the expense of everything else. And is completely pointless because the speed difference between a touch typist and a self taught typist is completely negligible for 99% of tasks.
Twey 1y ago
Pianists are very (like 60%) susceptible to RSI, especially if they have small hands [1] (= lots of stretching motions). I think it's a tradeoff — moving your forearm around spares your wrists, but puts more strain on your elbows. I wouldn't be surprised if it's better overall, though, just because it involves a wider variety of movements. [1]: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12611474/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12611474/ Anecdotally, I have large hands (or at least long fingers) and early piano lessons, and as a self-taught chaos typist on QWERTY I struggled with RSI at a relatively young age until I switched to more traditional touch-typing on Dvorak.

tcmart14 1y ago

It's changed since now Ive got the ZSA Voyager and put my trackball mouse in the center, over all, it is still a small set up. But prior to, I did 60/65% keyboards. A lot of it for me was just a spacing issue. Full size keyboards are nice, but take up a lot of room with a mouse and then wanting to also use a notebook at my desk for notes and designing.

utopiah 1y ago

> proponents of mechanical keyboards say you need fewer keys than a regular keyboard, for _reasons_ Well "reasons" is quite obviously travel distance and thus time. If your fingers are always on, or nearby, the resting position (home row) then you go faster and don't stretch in repeated weird (ergonomically speaking) ways. This though comes at a BIG cost, namely layers and other tricks to make "far" thing stay "close", which is cognitive. You have to remember where things are and how to activate them. Until it comes second nature because you drilled for so long then it might not be worth it for most. The "reasons" are not arbitrary.