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I don't have a horse in which decentralized protocol wins, but while ATProtocol sounds great on paper I'm still inching closer to liking ActivityPub more. I'm p

I don't have a horse in which decentralized protocol wins, but while ATProtocol sounds great on paper I'm still inching closer to liking ActivityPub more. I'm pretty active on Lemmy[1] which is quite active and fun to browse 1. 99.99% (literally) of AT users are on Bluesky, which is helmed by a for-profit corporation. The argument is that they don't control the protocol but considering it is THE dominating instance of that protocol, what's stopping them from strong-arming the protocol and changing how it works to benefit them? Better yet, what's stopping them from doing a rugpull and closing off their open service? What if bluesky decides 5 years from now that you aren't allowed to move your account? This isn't some hypothetical scenario, this already happened before. A lot of social medias started off with fairly open features and APIs and slowly choked them out for profit. 2. Users don't really care about protocol, they care about momentum and userbase. Piefed/Lemmy/Mbin are all popular-ish Reddit alternatives using AP. It was already a struggle to reach a point where posts could get over a hundred comments a day, how are you going to convince people to move to another platform again? I'm worried this will just end in splintering an already niche community and cause people to just give up and go back to using popular platforms. Being able to move accounts is a very neat feature but it's not a reason enough to move. You can already export your settings and make an account on another instance in 20 seconds then import your settings again, which would bring back your subscriptions and blocks and all you set up from account 1. To me it's not a huge deal. See also: https://arewedecentralizedyet.online/ https://arewedecentralizedyet.online/ [1]: A fediverse Reddit alternative, e.g https://lemmy.world/ https://lemmy.world/ and https://programming.dev/ https://programming.dev/ . See also Piefed which I think is better nowadays https://piefed.social/ https://piefed.social/

self_awareness 1y ago
I know that Mastodon is not the same as ActivityPub, but I don't know how can it be treated seriously if it allows disappearing replies. Whatever we write will disappear after some time. Sometimes. Because sometimes not. Maybe it's an implementation problem, I don't know, but it was one of my two reasons for my exit from Mastodon.
- F3nd0 1y ago
  I think it’s ultimately up to your instance whether it keeps your posts indefinitely or not. I think most do, but others might delete posts after a period of time, in which case they should mention this to their users (on their ‘About’ page, for example). Personally, I can’t say I’ve encountered this problem, but then again I’ve mostly used Pleroma (which is a different program implementing the ActivityPub protocol, like Mastodon).
- yborg 1y ago
  It's literally a feature - individual users can set post auto-deletion on their instance. Because a government could suddenly start firing people from their jobs for some shitpost they made a decade ago. But you have the fact that this is the Internet, and somebody will have archived your post no matter what you or your host instance does. So you can rest assured that whatever you wrote on Mastodon is out there somewhere...
steveklabnik 1y ago
> considering it is THE dominating instance of that protocol, Instances don't work like they do on mastodon. There's not really a "dominating instance" in the same way. Heck, even within Bluesky's infra, there are multiple PDSes. Basically, stuff is layered in a different way (which the article shows the details of) and so talking about the structure of things ends up working differently. > what's stopping them from strong-arming the protocol and changing how it works to benefit them? This is absolutely a real concern. I believe they have shown themselves to be good stewards, and they also recognize this concern. As the ecosystem grows, this will be fixed. > Better yet, what's stopping them from doing a rugpull and closing off their open service? What if bluesky decides 5 years from now that you aren't allowed to move your account? This is built into the protocol! You can back up your CAR file and move it to another host without the approval of your current host. > You can already export your settings and make an account on another instance This doesn't work on masto to the same degree as atproto. You lose a lot of stuff when you move on masto, but it's 100% transparent on atproto.
- xrisk 1y ago
  If your pds refuses to serve you your CAR file I don’t think you can do anything about it, can you?
  - steveklabnik 1y ago
    Yes, if you are really worried about this you’d want to regularly back that up.
    - linza 1y ago
      I read your reply as the scenario from GP is unlikely to happen in practice or has low impact. To me it seems you need to make frequent backups of "your" data to have a copy of it. Can i run multiple PDSes with my own single identity to not give one provider exclusive power over access to "my" data?
      - danabramov 1y ago
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
AlienRobot 1y ago
What irks me is that in the end of the day if you go to Bluesky it's all American politics and if you go to literally any mastodon instance it's all American politics. Maybe it's because I don't like monster of the week political drama, but I still don't see a reason to use them instead of Tumblr, Pinterest, or even TikTok.
- popcar2 1y ago
  This is very true, and it's a large part of why I never use microblogging at all, it's impossible to just find posts that fit what you want to see. That's why I mostly use Lemmy/Piefed because everything is neatly organized into communities that you can subscribe to. I mostly browse tech & gaming communities and my feed is very chill.
  - AuthAuth 1y ago
    linux - cats - games on lemmy for the best feed
  - Gareth321 1y ago
    > That's why I mostly use Lemmy/Piefed because everything is neatly organized into communities that you can subscribe to. I mostly browse tech & gaming communities and my feed is very chill. I wish that were also my experience with Lemmy. Even the communities and posts not focused on American politics are often about American politics. Discussion quickly devolves into some pretty extreme (and often violent) leftwing American political rhetoric. I understand Piefed can block whole instances, so maybe I should try that before I give up.
- viraptor 1y ago
  > if you go to literally any mastodon instance it's all American politics. It really depends on who you follow. Almost all the talk I see is tagged with #uspol so I could easily filter it out, but even without it, it's not the dominating topic.
- est 1y ago
  so what we need a de-politics filter by default?

self_awareness 1y ago

I know that Mastodon is not the same as ActivityPub, but I don't know how can it be treated seriously if it allows disappearing replies. Whatever we write will disappear after some time. Sometimes. Because sometimes not. Maybe it's an implementation problem, I don't know, but it was one of my two reasons for my exit from Mastodon.

F3nd0 1y ago
I think it’s ultimately up to your instance whether it keeps your posts indefinitely or not. I think most do, but others might delete posts after a period of time, in which case they should mention this to their users (on their ‘About’ page, for example). Personally, I can’t say I’ve encountered this problem, but then again I’ve mostly used Pleroma (which is a different program implementing the ActivityPub protocol, like Mastodon).
yborg 1y ago
It's literally a feature - individual users can set post auto-deletion on their instance. Because a government could suddenly start firing people from their jobs for some shitpost they made a decade ago. But you have the fact that this is the Internet, and somebody will have archived your post no matter what you or your host instance does. So you can rest assured that whatever you wrote on Mastodon is out there somewhere...

steveklabnik 1y ago

> considering it is THE dominating instance of that protocol, Instances don't work like they do on mastodon. There's not really a "dominating instance" in the same way. Heck, even within Bluesky's infra, there are multiple PDSes. Basically, stuff is layered in a different way (which the article shows the details of) and so talking about the structure of things ends up working differently. > what's stopping them from strong-arming the protocol and changing how it works to benefit them? This is absolutely a real concern. I believe they have shown themselves to be good stewards, and they also recognize this concern. As the ecosystem grows, this will be fixed. > Better yet, what's stopping them from doing a rugpull and closing off their open service? What if bluesky decides 5 years from now that you aren't allowed to move your account? This is built into the protocol! You can back up your CAR file and move it to another host without the approval of your current host. > You can already export your settings and make an account on another instance This doesn't work on masto to the same degree as atproto. You lose a lot of stuff when you move on masto, but it's 100% transparent on atproto.

xrisk 1y ago
If your pds refuses to serve you your CAR file I don’t think you can do anything about it, can you?
- steveklabnik 1y ago
  Yes, if you are really worried about this you’d want to regularly back that up.
  - linza 1y ago
    I read your reply as the scenario from GP is unlikely to happen in practice or has low impact. To me it seems you need to make frequent backups of "your" data to have a copy of it. Can i run multiple PDSes with my own single identity to not give one provider exclusive power over access to "my" data?
    - danabramov 1y ago

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

AlienRobot 1y ago

What irks me is that in the end of the day if you go to Bluesky it's all American politics and if you go to literally any mastodon instance it's all American politics. Maybe it's because I don't like monster of the week political drama, but I still don't see a reason to use them instead of Tumblr, Pinterest, or even TikTok.

popcar2 1y ago
This is very true, and it's a large part of why I never use microblogging at all, it's impossible to just find posts that fit what you want to see. That's why I mostly use Lemmy/Piefed because everything is neatly organized into communities that you can subscribe to. I mostly browse tech & gaming communities and my feed is very chill.
- AuthAuth 1y ago
  linux - cats - games on lemmy for the best feed
- Gareth321 1y ago
  > That's why I mostly use Lemmy/Piefed because everything is neatly organized into communities that you can subscribe to. I mostly browse tech & gaming communities and my feed is very chill. I wish that were also my experience with Lemmy. Even the communities and posts not focused on American politics are often about American politics. Discussion quickly devolves into some pretty extreme (and often violent) leftwing American political rhetoric. I understand Piefed can block whole instances, so maybe I should try that before I give up.
viraptor 1y ago
> if you go to literally any mastodon instance it's all American politics. It really depends on who you follow. Almost all the talk I see is tagged with #uspol so I could easily filter it out, but even without it, it's not the dominating topic.
est 1y ago
so what we need a de-politics filter by default?