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I never understood the obsession with Bruce Lee as a fighter (not considering his acting/stunt scenes here which deserve to be judged on their own merit), it se

I never understood the obsession with Bruce Lee as a fighter (not considering his acting/stunt scenes here which deserve to be judged on their own merit), it seems any half decent Judoka or amateur boxer would have probably beaten him in a fight.

philipallstar 1y ago
A boxer might well have beaten him at boxing
- potbelly83 1y ago
  Yep, but I thought he touted his martial skills as being able to beat any discipline.
  - _0ffh 1y ago
    In a contest where both were allowed to actually use their own martial arts style.
t-3 1y ago
Bruce Lee competed in and won boxing tournaments as a teenager...
- riku_iki 1y ago
  any reliable record for this?
  - dogmatism 1y ago
    I think there's a story about him beating a white kid from a rival private school in a boxing match certainly unreliable reports of him doing well in informal rooftop bouts amongst the various Wing Chun students in Hong Kong there are also stories of him getting his ass kicked by William Chung and Wong Shun Leung (others of Yp Man's students) and being a petty little bitch and getting kicked out of Yp Man's school Who knows. It's all apocrypha at this point
    - fn-mote 1y ago
      > It's all apocrypha at this point There are still people alive who witnessed these events first hand. I don't think first-hand accounts should be labeled apocrypha. But... maybe it means you doubt them? Fair enough.
      - nerdsniper 1y ago
        It’s difficult to establish veracity of any of these accounts. Some of them are real, some aren’t, but the two are mostly indistinguishable. Is apocrypha a reasonable word to use for that?
  - kenjackson 1y ago
    The only thing I'd ever heard of was him beating the defending scholastic champ in Hong Kong. But AFAIK that was the only boxing match where there is any sort of record.
    - riku_iki 1y ago
      I read this in wiki too, but couldn't trace where this came from.
IncreasePosts 1y ago
Well, that's the thing. He never fought any of those people in a real competition, so the question could remain in someone's mind whether he would have won or not. Combine that with the general mystique of Asian martial arts in the 1960s, and his early death, that has the makings of a legend. I think people also like the idea that there can be these systems in place for hundreds of years, and an individual can come along and intelligence and hard work, can turn the systems upside down or develop something better.
- MegaButts 1y ago
  > I think people also like the idea that there can be these systems in place for hundreds of years, and an individual can come along and intelligence and hard work, can turn the systems upside down or develop something better. That's what the Gracie family did with Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Except they actually proved it worked by dominating the early years of UFC before they even introduced weight classes.
- layoric 1y ago
  > I think people also like the idea that there can be these systems in place for hundreds of years, and an individual can come along and intelligence and hard work, can turn the systems upside down or develop something better. My interest over the years of Bruce Lee was much more from this perspective. Many stories talk about how hard he trained, and other aspects of essentially an underdog story. Combined with his communication[0], he comes across very thoughtful, and very grounded in many ways. Putting anyone on a “legend” status pedestal is always fraught with issues, but definitely a figure that inspired a lot of people. https://youtu.be/uk1lzkH-e4U?si=Uu44M-UC1tKYv894 https://youtu.be/uk1lzkH-e4U?si=Uu44M-UC1tKYv894
delichon 1y ago
Tarantino wanted to prove that his stunt double character was a bad-ass, so he had him fight Bruce Lee on a movie studio back lot, and win. Tarantino said that Bruce Lee fans dragged him through fire, insisting that Lee would have won. Tarantino said, it's my fantasy damn it, my guy can win if I want him to! That's consistent with your comment getting down votes.
- Waterluvian 1y ago
  You not liking the thing that I like negatively impacts me liking the thing.
  - BLKNSLVR 1y ago
    All too true for too many people these days. Snowflakes.
- gweinberg 1y ago
  In the flick Tarantino made it seem like Lee was all bluff, that he could just talk tough and make some fancy moves and much bigger guys would all back down. The world doesn't work like that.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - comfysocks 1y ago
    On the one hand, in interviews, Tarantino always seems to have contrarian opinions about everything. When Kill Bill came out, he’d verbally knock Lee and praise lesser known movie practitioners. On the other hand, if you watch the movie until the end, it’s obvious that the movie has an unreliable narrator. We all know how the Tate/Labianca murders actually turned out. Not at all like the movie…
    - gweinberg 1y ago
      That's not unreliable narrator, it's alternative history. Like when his heroes kill Hitler and end the war early saving millions of lives.

philipallstar 1y ago

A boxer might well have beaten him at boxing

potbelly83 1y ago
Yep, but I thought he touted his martial skills as being able to beat any discipline.
- _0ffh 1y ago
  In a contest where both were allowed to actually use their own martial arts style.

t-3 1y ago

Bruce Lee competed in and won boxing tournaments as a teenager...

riku_iki 1y ago
any reliable record for this?
- dogmatism 1y ago
  I think there's a story about him beating a white kid from a rival private school in a boxing match certainly unreliable reports of him doing well in informal rooftop bouts amongst the various Wing Chun students in Hong Kong there are also stories of him getting his ass kicked by William Chung and Wong Shun Leung (others of Yp Man's students) and being a petty little bitch and getting kicked out of Yp Man's school Who knows. It's all apocrypha at this point
  - fn-mote 1y ago
    > It's all apocrypha at this point There are still people alive who witnessed these events first hand. I don't think first-hand accounts should be labeled apocrypha. But... maybe it means you doubt them? Fair enough.
    - nerdsniper 1y ago
      It’s difficult to establish veracity of any of these accounts. Some of them are real, some aren’t, but the two are mostly indistinguishable. Is apocrypha a reasonable word to use for that?
- kenjackson 1y ago
  The only thing I'd ever heard of was him beating the defending scholastic champ in Hong Kong. But AFAIK that was the only boxing match where there is any sort of record.
  - riku_iki 1y ago
    I read this in wiki too, but couldn't trace where this came from.

IncreasePosts 1y ago

Well, that's the thing. He never fought any of those people in a real competition, so the question could remain in someone's mind whether he would have won or not. Combine that with the general mystique of Asian martial arts in the 1960s, and his early death, that has the makings of a legend. I think people also like the idea that there can be these systems in place for hundreds of years, and an individual can come along and intelligence and hard work, can turn the systems upside down or develop something better.

MegaButts 1y ago
> I think people also like the idea that there can be these systems in place for hundreds of years, and an individual can come along and intelligence and hard work, can turn the systems upside down or develop something better. That's what the Gracie family did with Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Except they actually proved it worked by dominating the early years of UFC before they even introduced weight classes.
layoric 1y ago
> I think people also like the idea that there can be these systems in place for hundreds of years, and an individual can come along and intelligence and hard work, can turn the systems upside down or develop something better. My interest over the years of Bruce Lee was much more from this perspective. Many stories talk about how hard he trained, and other aspects of essentially an underdog story. Combined with his communication[0], he comes across very thoughtful, and very grounded in many ways. Putting anyone on a “legend” status pedestal is always fraught with issues, but definitely a figure that inspired a lot of people. https://youtu.be/uk1lzkH-e4U?si=Uu44M-UC1tKYv894 https://youtu.be/uk1lzkH-e4U?si=Uu44M-UC1tKYv894

delichon 1y ago

Tarantino wanted to prove that his stunt double character was a bad-ass, so he had him fight Bruce Lee on a movie studio back lot, and win. Tarantino said that Bruce Lee fans dragged him through fire, insisting that Lee would have won. Tarantino said, it's my fantasy damn it, my guy can win if I want him to! That's consistent with your comment getting down votes.

Waterluvian 1y ago
You not liking the thing that I like negatively impacts me liking the thing.
- BLKNSLVR 1y ago
  All too true for too many people these days. Snowflakes.
gweinberg 1y ago
In the flick Tarantino made it seem like Lee was all bluff, that he could just talk tough and make some fancy moves and much bigger guys would all back down. The world doesn't work like that.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- comfysocks 1y ago
  On the one hand, in interviews, Tarantino always seems to have contrarian opinions about everything. When Kill Bill came out, he’d verbally knock Lee and praise lesser known movie practitioners. On the other hand, if you watch the movie until the end, it’s obvious that the movie has an unreliable narrator. We all know how the Tate/Labianca murders actually turned out. Not at all like the movie…
  - gweinberg 1y ago
    That's not unreliable narrator, it's alternative history. Like when his heroes kill Hitler and end the war early saving millions of lives.