4 ms·

In Minnesota, we built light rail... with an honor system for boarding. It got so bad, especially on the middle cars (the "party cars") after COVID, that the m

In Minnesota, we built light rail... with an honor system for boarding. It got so bad, especially on the middle cars (the "party cars") after COVID, that the middle car was retired and they are now in Year 3 of a security improvement plan. https://www.metrotransit.org/public-safety https://www.metrotransit.org/public-safety They are also retro-fitting screens into the buses, showing the buses' own live camera feeds, to further reinforce the perception of being watched. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SBd3wno61k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SBd3wno61k It's still not working in some areas. https://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-46th-st-light-rail-crime/601374022 https://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-46th-st-light-rail-c... https://www.instagram.com/karenthecamera/?hl=en https://www.instagram.com/karenthecamera/?hl=en

bluGill 1y ago
Honor system with regular fare inspection is a good best practice. However it only works when the fines for not having a fare are high enough that everyone knows it isn't worth the risk. If you are checked once a month the fine should be the costs of 3 months pass, though you can work the math in many different ways, just make sure paying for a ticket (preferably a monthly pass!) is cheapest and everyone believe that.
- gjsman-1000 1y ago
  The problem with fining the homeless is that they don't pay, followed by being onboard the next day. This can't be solved without being a little mean. In 2023, Democratic lawmakers changed it from being a misdemeanor to being an administrative citation, with... get this... $35 for first offense, scaling up to $100 + 120 day ban by 4th offense. More merciful than going through a court system inconsistently, at least in theory. Huge surprise it's not working out.
  - bluGill 1y ago
    Homeless should be on a different program that gives them a free pass anyway. The pass should be paid for by the service that deals with the homeless not the transit agency (note that I just forced a lot of budget changes!). The service wants to hand out those passes because it is a chance for them to see what else they can do for those people (who often don't want help and so they need to be careful what they offer vs force) There should be passes for disabled vets, children, and other poor people as well.
    - gjsman-1000 1y ago
      Believe me, visit Reddit for Minneapolis, the most transit-optimist place you can find, and see what they think about their light rail. Full grown adult women won't ride it. Children? That's almost child endangerment by itself. I have no problem with homeless people getting free transit if they need it. However, the subset of homeless that are consistently riding for free and making nuisances, they may need to be forcibly kept off the train. It doesn't even need to be police action - install physical barriers, requiring cash or pass, and hand out passes to the homeless like candy with revocation for repeated misbehavior.
      - bluGill 1y ago
        i lived in minneapolis until 15 years ago. Transit is getting better but it is still useless for the majority. Even those who live near light rail often findiit useless because it doesn't 'go where you want to go, when you want to go, for a reasonable price, in a reasonable amount of time'. (there might be more in that list?) Priceiis reasonable but the others are too often lacking.
  - PaulHoule 1y ago
    Many of the emotionally disturbed and criminal people aren't actually homeless, and many homeless people are basically law abiding and not so crazy. About a year ago I went to NYC and it was a bit surreal. It didn't really seem unsafe but boy I saw a lot of people (mostly white) propping open the emergency exits so other people could sneak in just around the corner from New York Guard troops supporting the NYPD. Video ads on the subway were oddly calibrated: "Don't sleep on the subway because it makes you vulnerable to crime", "Don't jump the turnstile because we have roughly 30 programs that could get you free or reduced fares" together with ads for deodorant.
    - mike50 1y ago
      The New York Guard is not the New York Army National Guard (which were the personnel actually deployed). The New York Guard is less then 1000 personnel. The entire operation was a transparent psyop when some brainwashed tv news views saw a crime on the 6 o'clock news. The governor of New York might as well be from another planet when it comes to understanding New York City.
  - jshprentz 1y ago
    Perhaps we should implement public therapy buses, suggested by Steven Johnson in his 1991 book of the same name.
- SoftTalker 1y ago
  Honor systems only work with honorable people.

bluGill 1y ago

Honor system with regular fare inspection is a good best practice. However it only works when the fines for not having a fare are high enough that everyone knows it isn't worth the risk. If you are checked once a month the fine should be the costs of 3 months pass, though you can work the math in many different ways, just make sure paying for a ticket (preferably a monthly pass!) is cheapest and everyone believe that.

gjsman-1000 1y ago
The problem with fining the homeless is that they don't pay, followed by being onboard the next day. This can't be solved without being a little mean. In 2023, Democratic lawmakers changed it from being a misdemeanor to being an administrative citation, with... get this... $35 for first offense, scaling up to $100 + 120 day ban by 4th offense. More merciful than going through a court system inconsistently, at least in theory. Huge surprise it's not working out.
- bluGill 1y ago
  Homeless should be on a different program that gives them a free pass anyway. The pass should be paid for by the service that deals with the homeless not the transit agency (note that I just forced a lot of budget changes!). The service wants to hand out those passes because it is a chance for them to see what else they can do for those people (who often don't want help and so they need to be careful what they offer vs force) There should be passes for disabled vets, children, and other poor people as well.
  - gjsman-1000 1y ago
    Believe me, visit Reddit for Minneapolis, the most transit-optimist place you can find, and see what they think about their light rail. Full grown adult women won't ride it. Children? That's almost child endangerment by itself. I have no problem with homeless people getting free transit if they need it. However, the subset of homeless that are consistently riding for free and making nuisances, they may need to be forcibly kept off the train. It doesn't even need to be police action - install physical barriers, requiring cash or pass, and hand out passes to the homeless like candy with revocation for repeated misbehavior.
    - bluGill 1y ago
      i lived in minneapolis until 15 years ago. Transit is getting better but it is still useless for the majority. Even those who live near light rail often findiit useless because it doesn't 'go where you want to go, when you want to go, for a reasonable price, in a reasonable amount of time'. (there might be more in that list?) Priceiis reasonable but the others are too often lacking.
- PaulHoule 1y ago
  Many of the emotionally disturbed and criminal people aren't actually homeless, and many homeless people are basically law abiding and not so crazy. About a year ago I went to NYC and it was a bit surreal. It didn't really seem unsafe but boy I saw a lot of people (mostly white) propping open the emergency exits so other people could sneak in just around the corner from New York Guard troops supporting the NYPD. Video ads on the subway were oddly calibrated: "Don't sleep on the subway because it makes you vulnerable to crime", "Don't jump the turnstile because we have roughly 30 programs that could get you free or reduced fares" together with ads for deodorant.
  - mike50 1y ago
    The New York Guard is not the New York Army National Guard (which were the personnel actually deployed). The New York Guard is less then 1000 personnel. The entire operation was a transparent psyop when some brainwashed tv news views saw a crime on the 6 o'clock news. The governor of New York might as well be from another planet when it comes to understanding New York City.
- jshprentz 1y ago
  Perhaps we should implement public therapy buses, suggested by Steven Johnson in his 1991 book of the same name.
SoftTalker 1y ago
Honor systems only work with honorable people.