4 ms·

I think labor cost alone is most plausible, especially combined with higher quantities. Average yearly salary in urban China is <$20k. Getting parity with subs

I think labor cost alone is most plausible, especially combined with higher quantities. Average yearly salary in urban China is <$20k. Getting parity with subsidies, worker/environmental protection and regulation overhead would not even come close to make the US price-competitive for labor intensive work like this right now, IMO.

PaulHoule 1y ago
Chinese manufacturers use more advanced processes, not just cheap labor. For instance they built a mushroom factory in Shanghai where they only touch the mushrooms with a forklift -- contrast that to the "big" indoor mushroom farms in Pennsylvania that make those Agaricus white button mushrooms where somebody has to cut each mushroom with a knife. They just opened one in Texas. BYD constructs cars with radically different methods than Western manufacturers, who can close much of the gap when they catch up in technique https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/1mnel0i/ford_aims_for_revolution_with_30000_electric_truck/ https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/1mnel0i/f...
- myrmidon 1y ago
  I'm just saying that the "China cheaper because dirty, bad quality copycat products" is in my view mostly an incorrect excuse; cheap labor and (sometimes) larger scale are (for now!) Chinese advantages that people love to ignore. Being price-competitive with Chinese production then means either driving down local wages or inflating product costs, and there is absolutely no way around this (until you have heavy industry that literally builds itself).
AngryData 1y ago
I don't believe labor is that much of the cost of a bus, unless you are talking about the "labor" of investors and high level administrators. Ive worked in many many different manufacturing jobs, and labor of building things has always been the lowest cost of concern despite managers trying to harp on about it. Labor costs are the easiest to control, which is why they get the most attention, but material procurement, administrative bloat and bureaucracy, and marketing or bribes always top the scale above the workers actually producing what is being sold.
- myrmidon 1y ago
  First: I'm not blaming US workers for being unreasonably expensive. But those higher wage levels are not just affecting a products core-labor working at the assembly line-- you'll have project managers, sales, purchasing, contractors, even the construction workers building your factories: All of them are affected by this (and those people exist in China, too!). I would assume that the total sales price of a bus contains a larger fraction proportional with hourly wages than you might expect at first glance.

PaulHoule 1y ago

Chinese manufacturers use more advanced processes, not just cheap labor. For instance they built a mushroom factory in Shanghai where they only touch the mushrooms with a forklift -- contrast that to the "big" indoor mushroom farms in Pennsylvania that make those Agaricus white button mushrooms where somebody has to cut each mushroom with a knife. They just opened one in Texas. BYD constructs cars with radically different methods than Western manufacturers, who can close much of the gap when they catch up in technique https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/1mnel0i/ford_aims_for_revolution_with_30000_electric_truck/ https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/1mnel0i/f...

myrmidon 1y ago
I'm just saying that the "China cheaper because dirty, bad quality copycat products" is in my view mostly an incorrect excuse; cheap labor and (sometimes) larger scale are (for now!) Chinese advantages that people love to ignore. Being price-competitive with Chinese production then means either driving down local wages or inflating product costs, and there is absolutely no way around this (until you have heavy industry that literally builds itself).

AngryData 1y ago

I don't believe labor is that much of the cost of a bus, unless you are talking about the "labor" of investors and high level administrators. Ive worked in many many different manufacturing jobs, and labor of building things has always been the lowest cost of concern despite managers trying to harp on about it. Labor costs are the easiest to control, which is why they get the most attention, but material procurement, administrative bloat and bureaucracy, and marketing or bribes always top the scale above the workers actually producing what is being sold.

myrmidon 1y ago
First: I'm not blaming US workers for being unreasonably expensive. But those higher wage levels are not just affecting a products core-labor working at the assembly line-- you'll have project managers, sales, purchasing, contractors, even the construction workers building your factories: All of them are affected by this (and those people exist in China, too!). I would assume that the total sales price of a bus contains a larger fraction proportional with hourly wages than you might expect at first glance.