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> "A new paper argues that lack of competition, demand for custom features and “Buy America” rules have driven up costs for transit agencies in the US." If tha

> "A new paper argues that lack of competition, demand for custom features and “Buy America” rules have driven up costs for transit agencies in the US." If that's not the most NYC finance-centered headline ever, I don't know what is. "If we just offload our bus-building industry to somewhere else, we could save $x on taxes each year. Yeah, it eliminates jobs and is another blow against strategically-important heavy industry, but please, think of my balance sheet!"

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
sidewndr46 1y ago
imagine how much money the government could save by just continuing to collect taxes and not providing any services! we could privatize everything!
- red_rech 1y ago
  Yes! we can even distribute political and military power to selected individuals who can rule over small portions maintaining security and collecting taxes. After all, it was divine right (Darwinian evolution, AI schizobabble, etc) that made them men of might.
  - potato3732842 1y ago
    >Yes! we can even distribute political and military power to selected individuals who can rule over small portions maintaining security and collecting taxes. That's basically what states and municipalities are.
- mschuster91 1y ago
  That's ... decently close to what the current political course of action is, a strategy called "starve the beast" [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast
  - sidewndr46 1y ago
    The very first sentence in that sayes "cutting taxes". I'm explicitly proposing that taxes be maintained or raised while reducing or eliminating government services.
- supertrope 1y ago
  That's running the government like a business!
namdnay 1y ago
it's not a question of "offloading" it, it's a question of reaping the benefits of global competition Would you really be better off if you could only buy cars made by US manufacturers? Did americans really lose out when Toyota and co arrived? Would Boeing aircraft really be better if they didn't have to compete with Airbus? Or would the incumbents just get lazy?
- mschuster91 1y ago
  There's a difference between private companies and state-run companies / authorities. When a US airline thinks it's better for them to switch over to Airbus, by all means do so, that's competition. But taxpayer money should not be used to prop up other countries' economies unless explicitly designated that way (e.g. contributions to international agencies, economic aid), and certainly not if that replaces domestic union labor.
  - rangestransform 1y ago
    https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/mta-time-clock-vandalized-days-after-similar-incident-at-lirr-amid-overtime-scandal/ https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/mta-time-clock-vandaliz... this is the kind of domestic union labour you're up against. american union labour should absolutely at least be subject to competition from union labour elsewhere, including european bus manufacturers.
  - PaulHoule 1y ago
    The thing is the public sector does have competition. We have a surplus of houses with XXL master bedroom suites in Arizona and a deficit of high speed rail. If they used union labor to build houses in Arizona and non-union labor to build high speed rail it would be the other way around. If it costs the public sector 3x as much to do things as the private sector people are going to turn against the public sector. Have crazy people screaming on the street corner in the city and people will retreat to the suburbs and order from Amazon instead of going shopping, order a private taxi for their burrito instead of going to a restaurant. If the public sector were efficient, responsive and pleasant people would be voting for more of it.
infecto 1y ago
One of the worst takes I have ever seen. It’s not about offloading an industry but if another geography has a comparative advantage everyone benefits. I would also argue that customizations are indeed a total waste of money for systems that already cash strapped.
- Mountain_Skies 1y ago
  What geography allows for worker oppression and environmental degradation as a competitive advantage?
  - infecto 1y ago
    Where did I say anything about worker oppression?
- bsder 1y ago
  > if another geography has a comparative advantage everyone benefits. I don't necessarily agree. Outsourcing has a cost in that you also lose the knowledge of the entire engineering chain. That engineering chain has a LOT of value to us as a society. However, it has negative value to a single CEO looking at his quarterly bonus.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

sidewndr46 1y ago

imagine how much money the government could save by just continuing to collect taxes and not providing any services! we could privatize everything!

red_rech 1y ago
Yes! we can even distribute political and military power to selected individuals who can rule over small portions maintaining security and collecting taxes. After all, it was divine right (Darwinian evolution, AI schizobabble, etc) that made them men of might.
- potato3732842 1y ago
  >Yes! we can even distribute political and military power to selected individuals who can rule over small portions maintaining security and collecting taxes. That's basically what states and municipalities are.
mschuster91 1y ago
That's ... decently close to what the current political course of action is, a strategy called "starve the beast" [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast
- sidewndr46 1y ago
  The very first sentence in that sayes "cutting taxes". I'm explicitly proposing that taxes be maintained or raised while reducing or eliminating government services.
supertrope 1y ago
That's running the government like a business!

namdnay 1y ago

it's not a question of "offloading" it, it's a question of reaping the benefits of global competition Would you really be better off if you could only buy cars made by US manufacturers? Did americans really lose out when Toyota and co arrived? Would Boeing aircraft really be better if they didn't have to compete with Airbus? Or would the incumbents just get lazy?

mschuster91 1y ago
There's a difference between private companies and state-run companies / authorities. When a US airline thinks it's better for them to switch over to Airbus, by all means do so, that's competition. But taxpayer money should not be used to prop up other countries' economies unless explicitly designated that way (e.g. contributions to international agencies, economic aid), and certainly not if that replaces domestic union labor.
- rangestransform 1y ago
  https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/mta-time-clock-vandalized-days-after-similar-incident-at-lirr-amid-overtime-scandal/ https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/mta-time-clock-vandaliz... this is the kind of domestic union labour you're up against. american union labour should absolutely at least be subject to competition from union labour elsewhere, including european bus manufacturers.
- PaulHoule 1y ago
  The thing is the public sector does have competition. We have a surplus of houses with XXL master bedroom suites in Arizona and a deficit of high speed rail. If they used union labor to build houses in Arizona and non-union labor to build high speed rail it would be the other way around. If it costs the public sector 3x as much to do things as the private sector people are going to turn against the public sector. Have crazy people screaming on the street corner in the city and people will retreat to the suburbs and order from Amazon instead of going shopping, order a private taxi for their burrito instead of going to a restaurant. If the public sector were efficient, responsive and pleasant people would be voting for more of it.

infecto 1y ago

One of the worst takes I have ever seen. It’s not about offloading an industry but if another geography has a comparative advantage everyone benefits. I would also argue that customizations are indeed a total waste of money for systems that already cash strapped.

Mountain_Skies 1y ago
What geography allows for worker oppression and environmental degradation as a competitive advantage?
- infecto 1y ago
  Where did I say anything about worker oppression?
bsder 1y ago
> if another geography has a comparative advantage everyone benefits. I don't necessarily agree. Outsourcing has a cost in that you also lose the knowledge of the entire engineering chain. That engineering chain has a LOT of value to us as a society. However, it has negative value to a single CEO looking at his quarterly bonus.