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The belief is -- and it is one that I share -- that this makes for more well rounded, human physicians. Additionally, a greater depth of thinking leads to bett

The belief is -- and it is one that I share -- that this makes for more well rounded, human physicians. Additionally, a greater depth of thinking leads to better diagnosticians, and physician-scientists as well (IMO). Now, all of this is predicated on the traditional model of the University education, not the glorified jobs training program that it has slowly become.

hnfong 1y ago
Cynically, it's also a way for the US system to gatekeep "poor" people from entering professions like medicine and law because of the extra tuition fees (and opportunity time-cost) needed to complete their studies.
- chromatin 1y ago
  I am a natural skeptic, but in this case I think it is just an accident of history how different systems developed. FWIW, although this is not well known, many medical schools offer combined BA/MD degrees, ranging from 4-8 years: https://students-residents.aamc.org/medical-school-admission-requirements/medical-schools-offering-combined-baccalaureate-md-programs-state-and-program-length-2024-2025 https://students-residents.aamc.org/medical-school-admission... When I went 20 years ago, my school did not require a bachelor's degree and would admit exceptional students after 2 years of undergraduate coursework. However I think this has now gone away everywhere due to AAMC criteria
  - FireBeyond 1y ago
    In Australia, Medicine was/is typically an undergrad degree. In the mid-90s my school started offering a Bachelor of Biomedical Science which was targeted at two audiences - people who wanted to go into Medicine from a research, not clinical perspective, and people who wanted to practice medicine in the US (specifically because it was so laborious for people to get credentialed in the US with a foreign medical degree, that people were starting to say "I will do my pre-med in Australia, and then just go to a US medical school").
FireBeyond 1y ago
When I was in Australia and applying to study medicine (late 90s): Course acceptance is initially driven by academic performance, and ranked scoring. To get into Medicine at Monash and Melbourne Universities, you'd need a TER (Tertiary Entrance Ranking) of 99.8 (i.e. top 0.2% of students). This number was derived by course demand and capacity. But, during my time, Monash was known for having a supplementary interview process with panel and individual interviews - the interview group was composed of faculty, practicing physicians not affiliated with the university, psychologists, and lay community members - specifically with the goal of looking for those well-rounded individuals. It should also be noted that though "undergrad", there's little difference in the roadmap. Indeed when I was applying, the MBBS degree (Bachelor of Medicine and Surgery) was a six-year undergrad (soon revised to five), with similar post grad residency and other requirements for licensure and unrestricted practice.

hnfong 1y ago

Cynically, it's also a way for the US system to gatekeep "poor" people from entering professions like medicine and law because of the extra tuition fees (and opportunity time-cost) needed to complete their studies.

chromatin 1y ago
I am a natural skeptic, but in this case I think it is just an accident of history how different systems developed. FWIW, although this is not well known, many medical schools offer combined BA/MD degrees, ranging from 4-8 years: https://students-residents.aamc.org/medical-school-admission-requirements/medical-schools-offering-combined-baccalaureate-md-programs-state-and-program-length-2024-2025 https://students-residents.aamc.org/medical-school-admission... When I went 20 years ago, my school did not require a bachelor's degree and would admit exceptional students after 2 years of undergraduate coursework. However I think this has now gone away everywhere due to AAMC criteria
- FireBeyond 1y ago
  In Australia, Medicine was/is typically an undergrad degree. In the mid-90s my school started offering a Bachelor of Biomedical Science which was targeted at two audiences - people who wanted to go into Medicine from a research, not clinical perspective, and people who wanted to practice medicine in the US (specifically because it was so laborious for people to get credentialed in the US with a foreign medical degree, that people were starting to say "I will do my pre-med in Australia, and then just go to a US medical school").

FireBeyond 1y ago

When I was in Australia and applying to study medicine (late 90s): Course acceptance is initially driven by academic performance, and ranked scoring. To get into Medicine at Monash and Melbourne Universities, you'd need a TER (Tertiary Entrance Ranking) of 99.8 (i.e. top 0.2% of students). This number was derived by course demand and capacity. But, during my time, Monash was known for having a supplementary interview process with panel and individual interviews - the interview group was composed of faculty, practicing physicians not affiliated with the university, psychologists, and lay community members - specifically with the goal of looking for those well-rounded individuals. It should also be noted that though "undergrad", there's little difference in the roadmap. Indeed when I was applying, the MBBS degree (Bachelor of Medicine and Surgery) was a six-year undergrad (soon revised to five), with similar post grad residency and other requirements for licensure and unrestricted practice.