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Could you please give me your real name "celticninja", your phone number, your address, your NI number -- oh, and you'll need to install this app on your phone

Could you please give me your real name "celticninja", your phone number, your address, your NI number -- oh, and you'll need to install this app on your phone which I promise will never be used to monitor your location, purchases, friends. Then I'll explain.

gadders 1y ago
Also, please authenticate with your digital ID before posting on social media.
- tempodox 1y ago
  Not even a joke, but only a question of time.
- tedk-42 1y ago
  And we never heard from then again. Case in point of how someone likes something in theory but in practice it's distasteful.
- celticninja 1y ago
  That is not a requirement though. And if it came in I would be against it. So what is your point?
  - pjc50 1y ago
    Yet. This slope looks very slippery in the year of the Online Safety Act.
    - ruszki 1y ago
      With your logic, everything can be used, or change to be used in a bad way, so nothing should be changed. There is never a guarantee. Seriously, is there anything which cannot be changed to be shit, in the best case to be a worthless money pit? Edit: btw this proposal already has something which can be criticised: ID on mobile phones… so probably they’d lock everybody into a duopoly.
      - DangitBobby 1y ago
        You're arguing that the installation of a literal surveillance apparatus should be tolerated because technology can almost always be used for evil.
        ruszki 1y ago
        No, I’m arguing that it can be used for good, and it shouldn’t be dismissed when it cannot be used for evil things by law, especially not because of future possible evil usage, because that’s true for everything. Btw, why do use the internet? It’s quite contradictory to argue about this here. And that is the case since almost its inception.
        DangitBobby 1y ago
        Everything can be used for bad or good, some things the balance is so bad they aren't worth considering.
        ruszki 1y ago
        There is no difference between changing a law more, than less. It can be done the same way, with a single vote. So the balance doesn't matter at all, especially that voters clearly don't make distinctions based on that.
      - array_key_first 1y ago
        Yes, let's build the nuke and then put it in the center of London with a big red button. But don't worry, nobody will push the button. Or, proposal B: don't build the nuke.
        ruszki 1y ago
        Yes? They can kill half Europe with a single nuclear power plant if they really want. They are safe only for accidents, and external sabotage. They are absolutely not for intentional internal fuck ups. The whole system is built on that most workers there don’t want that. The whole system is built on trust.
  - gadders 1y ago
    Like they wouldn't bring it in to combat "mis-information" i.e. viewpoints they don't like.
  - EasyMark 1y ago
    What do you have to hide? Why are you against adding just a little more to the law to protect the children?
amaccuish 1y ago
Reductio ad absurdum.
- opless 1y ago
  Not really. British governments have always been increasingly authoritarian. The stated reason is to stop illegals working. Unfortunately we have an ID for working, called a national insurance number. We literally can't get legally paid without it. So a National ID card ... Is irrelevant. You still need this number for benefits, etc. I've got an NI number, a driving license and a passport. Not to mention a NHS number. I don't need another form of identification to link together everything about me so my government can leak everywhere.
  - pjc50 1y ago
    NI is not ID for working. It's a tax identifier. The ID for working system is https://www.gov.uk/prove-right-to-work https://www.gov.uk/prove-right-to-work , with its digital ID "share code" https://www.gov.uk/view-right-to-work https://www.gov.uk/view-right-to-work (what does the digital ID scheme add to this again?)
    - opless 1y ago
      Yes, and to be paid via PAYE you need a NI number. The prove right to work is a slightly newer thing thats additional
      - mnahkies 1y ago
        The nuance is that you can have a NI number, then have your visa lapse for whatever reason - you still have the NI number. Hence the requirement to prove your right to work through another means. Previously you could use proof of British nationality or a physical biometric residence card - but they've been replaced by the digital share code system (which tbh hasn't been too bad)
        1y ago
tpxl 1y ago
> Could you please give me your real name "celticninja", your phone number, your address, your NI number The police can and will request this information from you, digital ID or not. If you have actual beef with digital ID, present it.
- mytailorisrich 1y ago
  No, police cannot. The government is pushing Digital IDs on rubbish claims (obviously won't do anything about illegal immigration). Everyone can see that. So what does this mean about their actual aims?
- pjc50 1y ago
  They can certainly ask, but at the moment can they jail you simply for not answering?
  - GeoAtreides 1y ago
    yes. yes they can. They'll invoke one of the more ambiguous sections, it's usually the anti-terrorism one, but sometimes is the anti-drugs one (i can't remember the numbers), and they'll detain then arrest you and haul you to the police station. You can complain later, and maybe get some pounds out of it, but make no mistake: if the uk police wants you identified, they will identify you.
- ratelimitsteve 1y ago
  there's a difference between "the police can request this information from an individual" and "this information will be automatically gathered from everyone at all times and stored by the state". for one, there are circumstances in which the police are allowed to request that information and you can say "no", and there are also practical limits to the number of police that can be out requesting. The central equivalence you're trying to draw here is simply false.
  - EasyMark 1y ago
    Especially when they drop NFC into it and put up observation posts around the city
lxgr 1y ago
What does any of that have to do with an ID card? Many countries have had ID cards for decades, yet don't have any digital ID system whatsoever.
- array_key_first 1y ago
  Nothing but I thought we were talking about digital id.
  - lxgr 1y ago
    At least three comment levels up from mine are about ID cards, not digital ID.

gadders 1y ago

Also, please authenticate with your digital ID before posting on social media.

tempodox 1y ago
Not even a joke, but only a question of time.
tedk-42 1y ago
And we never heard from then again. Case in point of how someone likes something in theory but in practice it's distasteful.
celticninja 1y ago
That is not a requirement though. And if it came in I would be against it. So what is your point?
- pjc50 1y ago
  Yet. This slope looks very slippery in the year of the Online Safety Act.
  - ruszki 1y ago
    With your logic, everything can be used, or change to be used in a bad way, so nothing should be changed. There is never a guarantee. Seriously, is there anything which cannot be changed to be shit, in the best case to be a worthless money pit? Edit: btw this proposal already has something which can be criticised: ID on mobile phones… so probably they’d lock everybody into a duopoly.
    - DangitBobby 1y ago
      You're arguing that the installation of a literal surveillance apparatus should be tolerated because technology can almost always be used for evil.
      - ruszki 1y ago
        No, I’m arguing that it can be used for good, and it shouldn’t be dismissed when it cannot be used for evil things by law, especially not because of future possible evil usage, because that’s true for everything. Btw, why do use the internet? It’s quite contradictory to argue about this here. And that is the case since almost its inception.
        DangitBobby 1y ago
        Everything can be used for bad or good, some things the balance is so bad they aren't worth considering.
        ruszki 1y ago
        There is no difference between changing a law more, than less. It can be done the same way, with a single vote. So the balance doesn't matter at all, especially that voters clearly don't make distinctions based on that.
    - array_key_first 1y ago
      Yes, let's build the nuke and then put it in the center of London with a big red button. But don't worry, nobody will push the button. Or, proposal B: don't build the nuke.
      - ruszki 1y ago
        Yes? They can kill half Europe with a single nuclear power plant if they really want. They are safe only for accidents, and external sabotage. They are absolutely not for intentional internal fuck ups. The whole system is built on that most workers there don’t want that. The whole system is built on trust.
- gadders 1y ago
  Like they wouldn't bring it in to combat "mis-information" i.e. viewpoints they don't like.
- EasyMark 1y ago
  What do you have to hide? Why are you against adding just a little more to the law to protect the children?

amaccuish 1y ago

Reductio ad absurdum.

opless 1y ago
Not really. British governments have always been increasingly authoritarian. The stated reason is to stop illegals working. Unfortunately we have an ID for working, called a national insurance number. We literally can't get legally paid without it. So a National ID card ... Is irrelevant. You still need this number for benefits, etc. I've got an NI number, a driving license and a passport. Not to mention a NHS number. I don't need another form of identification to link together everything about me so my government can leak everywhere.
- pjc50 1y ago
  NI is not ID for working. It's a tax identifier. The ID for working system is https://www.gov.uk/prove-right-to-work https://www.gov.uk/prove-right-to-work , with its digital ID "share code" https://www.gov.uk/view-right-to-work https://www.gov.uk/view-right-to-work (what does the digital ID scheme add to this again?)
  - opless 1y ago
    Yes, and to be paid via PAYE you need a NI number. The prove right to work is a slightly newer thing thats additional
    - mnahkies 1y ago
      The nuance is that you can have a NI number, then have your visa lapse for whatever reason - you still have the NI number. Hence the requirement to prove your right to work through another means. Previously you could use proof of British nationality or a physical biometric residence card - but they've been replaced by the digital share code system (which tbh hasn't been too bad)
      - 1y ago

tpxl 1y ago

> Could you please give me your real name "celticninja", your phone number, your address, your NI number The police can and will request this information from you, digital ID or not. If you have actual beef with digital ID, present it.

mytailorisrich 1y ago
No, police cannot. The government is pushing Digital IDs on rubbish claims (obviously won't do anything about illegal immigration). Everyone can see that. So what does this mean about their actual aims?
pjc50 1y ago
They can certainly ask, but at the moment can they jail you simply for not answering?
- GeoAtreides 1y ago
  yes. yes they can. They'll invoke one of the more ambiguous sections, it's usually the anti-terrorism one, but sometimes is the anti-drugs one (i can't remember the numbers), and they'll detain then arrest you and haul you to the police station. You can complain later, and maybe get some pounds out of it, but make no mistake: if the uk police wants you identified, they will identify you.
ratelimitsteve 1y ago
there's a difference between "the police can request this information from an individual" and "this information will be automatically gathered from everyone at all times and stored by the state". for one, there are circumstances in which the police are allowed to request that information and you can say "no", and there are also practical limits to the number of police that can be out requesting. The central equivalence you're trying to draw here is simply false.
- EasyMark 1y ago
  Especially when they drop NFC into it and put up observation posts around the city

lxgr 1y ago

What does any of that have to do with an ID card? Many countries have had ID cards for decades, yet don't have any digital ID system whatsoever.

array_key_first 1y ago
Nothing but I thought we were talking about digital id.
- lxgr 1y ago
  At least three comment levels up from mine are about ID cards, not digital ID.