4 ms·

Interesting that the tagline is Interface Builder for web sites. One of the big powers of IB is that it ties back into your code so directly. This seems somewha

by timdorr 14y ago

Interesting that the tagline is Interface Builder for web sites. One of the big powers of IB is that it ties back into your code so directly. This seems somewhat separated from whatever underlying code I'm creating. I think the killer app is really an IB-for-the-web that plugs into Rails/Django/Symphony/etc so you can start building a web app visually, without sacrificing code quality.

mbleigh 14y ago
The great thing about building web apps is that it's extremely easy to connect the front end to the back end. By focusing our efforts on making the experience building the HTML and CSS great, we don't have to force a choice on you like Rails vs. Django or Backbone vs. Spine.js.
- Breefield 14y ago
  <bluesky> Perhaps Divshot could have some plugins that allow you to take the generated markup and specify, for example, which elements should repeat from an array passed through from Rails, or Django, etc. Then export that kind of code. Export to HAML would also be nice. </bluesky>
  - mbleigh 14y ago
    Our bluesky visions aren't so different, but no promises that outrageous just yet :)
- timdorr 14y ago
  That's great for the initial build-out, but what happens when I want to change something? I can't use your tool anymore, because for me to move an element on the page means I have to take that generated HTML/CSS and start over again converting it to a view template. This is a far-off idea, but it would be cool if you had support for various frameworks and could plug into a git repo to map the view data into the templates you're outputting. That way I could continue to use your product for the full lifecycle of development. Right now I write everything in HTML/CSS by hand and poke around with Firebug to do anything visual with it. I'd love a live-edited version of my view templates with a visual editor like this that generates high-quality code. I would pay a sizable amount of money for such a service.
cmelbye 14y ago
I agree. I find it tedious to take generated code and try to integrate it into my project (rip out filler text, replace it with database calls, etc.)
lallouz 14y ago
Who is the target market for what you are describing though (or for divshot for that matter)? Is it meant to be for slightly less technical people? Is it meant to take over all development/developers in the future? Being a seasoned developer, front, middle and back end, I find this an interesting product, but something that I would likely never use more than "playing around". I'm not trying to troll here, I'm legitimately curious if anyone else feels this way. Edit: I did sign up for an invite over a month ago, and I am legit excited to give it a go.
- mbleigh 14y ago
  We're building Divshot to be a tool that professional developers and designers use every day. I totally understand the "I would never use it for more than playing around" approach, but that's how it starts (see e.g. http://cdixon.org/2010/01/03/the-next-big-thing-will-start-out-looking-like-a-toy/ http://cdixon.org/2010/01/03/the-next-big-thing-will-start-o...). All I can say is give it a chance, watch how it grows, and I think you'll change your mind.
  - lallouz 14y ago
    Right, but which part of the dev/design process is it taking over? Do you guys see divshot taking over production ready front end development the way Balsamiq (and the likes, arguably) took over pen & paper? Given the predecessors to divshot in the WYSIWYG world, expect many developers and designers to be extremely open minded, yet very skeptical.
    - mbleigh 14y ago
      We definitely expect some skepticism given past WYSIWYG entries into the space, but we consider our prime directive to be "No matter what, the output is clean." We hope to be a tool that developers will use to rapidly prototype an interface at the beginning stages of an application and then continue to use it to experiment or quickly build new functionality throughout the app lifecycle. Hope that answers your question.
tianshuo 14y ago
+1 for integration with a template system or CMS, Definitely a killer app.
thedudemabry 14y ago
I was lucky enough to use the Divshot beta several months ago during a hackathon, and my team's process was indeed to copy the generated HTML into Rails ERB files at the end of initial design. But what was really powerful was the ability to WYSIWYG our way through discussions about what our product would do, and then just publish easily consumed code when we were ready to hack. Our alternative would have been an analogous process in Photoshop (slower and doesn't produce the base code) or to iterate the HTML during the discussion (much slower and requires the designer/developer to switch mental contexts quickly). It worked very well for our purposes and I see it being invaluable during client discussions.

by timdorr 14y ago

mbleigh 14y ago

The great thing about building web apps is that it's extremely easy to connect the front end to the back end. By focusing our efforts on making the experience building the HTML and CSS great, we don't have to force a choice on you like Rails vs. Django or Backbone vs. Spine.js.

Breefield 14y ago
<bluesky> Perhaps Divshot could have some plugins that allow you to take the generated markup and specify, for example, which elements should repeat from an array passed through from Rails, or Django, etc. Then export that kind of code. Export to HAML would also be nice. </bluesky>
- mbleigh 14y ago
  Our bluesky visions aren't so different, but no promises that outrageous just yet :)
timdorr 14y ago
That's great for the initial build-out, but what happens when I want to change something? I can't use your tool anymore, because for me to move an element on the page means I have to take that generated HTML/CSS and start over again converting it to a view template. This is a far-off idea, but it would be cool if you had support for various frameworks and could plug into a git repo to map the view data into the templates you're outputting. That way I could continue to use your product for the full lifecycle of development. Right now I write everything in HTML/CSS by hand and poke around with Firebug to do anything visual with it. I'd love a live-edited version of my view templates with a visual editor like this that generates high-quality code. I would pay a sizable amount of money for such a service.

cmelbye 14y ago

I agree. I find it tedious to take generated code and try to integrate it into my project (rip out filler text, replace it with database calls, etc.)

lallouz 14y ago

Who is the target market for what you are describing though (or for divshot for that matter)? Is it meant to be for slightly less technical people? Is it meant to take over all development/developers in the future? Being a seasoned developer, front, middle and back end, I find this an interesting product, but something that I would likely never use more than "playing around". I'm not trying to troll here, I'm legitimately curious if anyone else feels this way. Edit: I did sign up for an invite over a month ago, and I am legit excited to give it a go.

mbleigh 14y ago
We're building Divshot to be a tool that professional developers and designers use every day. I totally understand the "I would never use it for more than playing around" approach, but that's how it starts (see e.g. http://cdixon.org/2010/01/03/the-next-big-thing-will-start-out-looking-like-a-toy/ http://cdixon.org/2010/01/03/the-next-big-thing-will-start-o...). All I can say is give it a chance, watch how it grows, and I think you'll change your mind.
- lallouz 14y ago
  Right, but which part of the dev/design process is it taking over? Do you guys see divshot taking over production ready front end development the way Balsamiq (and the likes, arguably) took over pen & paper? Given the predecessors to divshot in the WYSIWYG world, expect many developers and designers to be extremely open minded, yet very skeptical.
  - mbleigh 14y ago
    We definitely expect some skepticism given past WYSIWYG entries into the space, but we consider our prime directive to be "No matter what, the output is clean." We hope to be a tool that developers will use to rapidly prototype an interface at the beginning stages of an application and then continue to use it to experiment or quickly build new functionality throughout the app lifecycle. Hope that answers your question.

tianshuo 14y ago

+1 for integration with a template system or CMS, Definitely a killer app.

thedudemabry 14y ago

I was lucky enough to use the Divshot beta several months ago during a hackathon, and my team's process was indeed to copy the generated HTML into Rails ERB files at the end of initial design. But what was really powerful was the ability to WYSIWYG our way through discussions about what our product would do, and then just publish easily consumed code when we were ready to hack. Our alternative would have been an analogous process in Photoshop (slower and doesn't produce the base code) or to iterate the HTML during the discussion (much slower and requires the designer/developer to switch mental contexts quickly). It worked very well for our purposes and I see it being invaluable during client discussions.