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That is beside the point. The point is that they are using a loophole in the asylum process to stay illegally for more time than they're allowed. After they suc

That is beside the point. The point is that they are using a loophole in the asylum process to stay illegally for more time than they're allowed. After they successfully do that, they of course have to work illegally (endangering themselves and others), they don't (can't) pay taxes, and they end up sending all the money they earned abroad. All attempts to close this loophole by various governments have been unfruitful, mainly because of strenuous left-wing opposition: Italian government tried to fingerprint them years ago (in order to make them more easily identifiable) but the law was killed. British government tried to move them in other (third world) countries during the asylum process (to make escaping their accommodation less appealing) but they couldn't do that. Now they're trying to shorten the asylum decision waiting window (which is ~1 year iirc), but that again is something that will be appealed to death.

mrtksn 1y ago
Instantly fixable by letting people work legally.
- curtisblaine 1y ago
  Countries have a right of controlling immigration in their territory. Letting illegal immigrants stay and work essentially negates that right.
  - jodrellblank 1y ago
    a) if it's illegal then the country isn't letting them do it. b) if your solution to it is that everyone else must have a mandatory state surveillance card powered by Palantir, Infosys, or Fujitsu Horizon so that you know who to target your hate at, you need to be forced back to the drawing board. We fought World War II against the "papers please" people who were using those documents to clear out undesirables. "strenuous left-wing opposition" has a pretty good history. right-wing authoritarianism ... doesn't.
    - curtisblaine 1y ago
      > if it's illegal then the country isn't letting them do it. Parent's suggestion was to make all illegal immigrants able to work legally, no question asked. This is equivalent to legalize all illegal immigrants, which is not a solution, it's a capitulation. > if your solution to it is that everyone else must have a mandatory state surveillance card powered by Well, no. The government is introducing a surveillance card because they always wanted to do that. They are able to use migrants as an excuse because every other means of controlling asylum seekers during their examination period has been made impossible. To be absolutely clear, the problem is not legal migrants entering the country or asylum seekers seeking asylum. The problem is asylum seekers using the asylum process as a loophole to enter the country and disappear from the government's radar. The government is unable to close the loophole and now it is using the mere existence of the loophole to justify mass surveillance of everyone but those who should be watched.

mrtksn 1y ago

Instantly fixable by letting people work legally.

curtisblaine 1y ago
Countries have a right of controlling immigration in their territory. Letting illegal immigrants stay and work essentially negates that right.
- jodrellblank 1y ago
  a) if it's illegal then the country isn't letting them do it. b) if your solution to it is that everyone else must have a mandatory state surveillance card powered by Palantir, Infosys, or Fujitsu Horizon so that you know who to target your hate at, you need to be forced back to the drawing board. We fought World War II against the "papers please" people who were using those documents to clear out undesirables. "strenuous left-wing opposition" has a pretty good history. right-wing authoritarianism ... doesn't.
  - curtisblaine 1y ago
    > if it's illegal then the country isn't letting them do it. Parent's suggestion was to make all illegal immigrants able to work legally, no question asked. This is equivalent to legalize all illegal immigrants, which is not a solution, it's a capitulation. > if your solution to it is that everyone else must have a mandatory state surveillance card powered by Well, no. The government is introducing a surveillance card because they always wanted to do that. They are able to use migrants as an excuse because every other means of controlling asylum seekers during their examination period has been made impossible. To be absolutely clear, the problem is not legal migrants entering the country or asylum seekers seeking asylum. The problem is asylum seekers using the asylum process as a loophole to enter the country and disappear from the government's radar. The government is unable to close the loophole and now it is using the mere existence of the loophole to justify mass surveillance of everyone but those who should be watched.