5 ms·

> Most likely the feds said they will tie up whoever challenges them in federal court. They can play jurisdiction fuck fuck games and then flip between it being

> Most likely the feds said they will tie up whoever challenges them in federal court. They can play jurisdiction fuck fuck games and then flip between it being a search, it being necessary for safety, that the city/county was obstruction a federal investigation, and all other nonsense. This sounds like some sort of legal procedures adopted from the USSR.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
oblio 1y ago
Well, you're probably right for some types of procedures. But this type of thing (surveillance cameras) would actually fall under state security and be ordered by the Central Committee and done top down without any comments anywhere along the line (because everyone understood what was good for them). You're probably thinking of the "we're making the wrong type of tractor ball bearings"/"we're making broken consumer radios" type of issue where yeah, they'd give you the runaround.
trhway 1y ago
It isn't just USSR, it is the core Russian principle of "oprichnina" - you can violate any laws, human or God's, as long as you're serving the tzar, Secretary General or President Putin. We start to see a hint of it here with ICE, and i'm sure we'll see a bit more of it with the newly formed Domestic Terrorism Task Force.
- saubeidl 1y ago
  > Domestic Terrorism Task Force That is ... a surprisingly honest name for a force that'll terrorize any domestic opposition, gotta give them that at least.
  - FireBeyond 1y ago
    It's not hard to draw potential dots: Designate Venezuelan boats as "likely terrorists" (drug dealers). Authorize use of extrajudicial military lethal force (blow up boats with dealers aboard). Justify the above due to "terrorism". Designate "Antifa" as a "domestic terrorism group". Not hard to see the next step of "deploy military force against individuals suspected of being Antifa". No need for pesky trials. They're terrorists. This is a war...
- Wololooo 1y ago
  And if I'd have to wager anyone that dare speaking out would be labelled antifa, therefore a terrorist, therefore free for all from a law enforcement perspective... Things are going downhill at an impressive pace... Not going to lie watching the Trainwreck in slow motion is entertaining in a sort of morbid way. Though I wished that it wouldn't go that way...
  - SlightlyLeftPad 1y ago
    Send help.
  - wartywhoa23 1y ago
    Trainwreck spotting is best conducted from outside of the train. I think that most cases of seemingly unwarranted depression and apathy in people today in fact stem from their subconscious acknowledgement of this trainwreck in progress, and failure of consciousness to accept that and/or do anything about it. In other words, mass cognitive dissonance.
    - jrs235 1y ago
      >I think that most cases of seemingly unwarranted depression and apathy in people today in fact stem from their subconscious acknowledgement of this trainwreck in progress, and failure of consciousness to accept that and/or do anything about it I think many sense this, want to get off the train, and away from the tracks but can't figure out how to do it. To pull off it seems overwhelming.
    - saubeidl 1y ago
      First articulated in 2005 by scholar Alexei Yurchak to describe the civilian experience in Soviet Russia, hypernormalization describes life in a society where two main things are happening. The first is people seeing that governing systems and institutions are broken. And the second is that, for reasons including a lack of effective leadership and an inability to imagine how to disrupt the status quo, people carry on with their lives as normal despite systemic dysfunction – give or take a heavy load of fear, dread, denial and dissociation.
  - 1y ago
- Yeul 1y ago
  This mode of operation is completely the reverse of my country the Netherlands. In Dutch society it doesn't really matter who the current ruling party is the big machine keeps rolling on. The names change frequently- governments keep tumbling down- but every day like clockwork people get up in the morning, go to work and follow their programming. Prime minister A is replaced by prime minister B. In some ways having a personality cult is less scary. You can kill a man but how do you destroy a collective?
  - blooalien 1y ago
    > "In some ways having a personality cult is less scary. You can kill a man but how do you destroy a collective?" In some ways it's far more terrifying, because of the operative word "cult" there. Sometimes the object of such a "personality cult" can attract the mindset of an actual cult to form around them and create a highly destructive and dangerous "collective". It's happened many times already throughout recorded history, and it never really seems to go all that well for anyone involved.
  - mindslight 1y ago
    This is one of the exact frustrations that has led the US to our current open fascism, so try not to take your state of affairs for granted. It's much easier to resist and avoid a bureaucracy (as it mostly operates on predictable rules), than a cult of personality autocrat who chooses new targets by the week.
  - ambicapter 1y ago
    You sound like someone who's never experienced a personality cult.
  - Terr_ 1y ago
    That's actually comparing two collectives: 1. A collective where there is a belief (however slow or stodgy) in the consistent application of known rules. 2. A collective where the only real rule is to make the cult leader happy even if it means a forest of contradictions and rewriting history. While (2) can easily change on a whim... it's not your whim. Which leads us to the practical question: Which collective do you think you and your community could best fight against when it starts hurting you? I think a majority of the time I'd rather be opposed to (1).
- throw0101c 1y ago
  > It isn't just USSR, it is the core Russian principle of "oprichnina" - you can violate any laws, human or God's, as long as you're serving the tzar, Secretary General or President Putin. “For my friends everything, for my enemies the law.” — Oscar R. Benavides, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Óscar_R._Benavides https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Óscar_R._Benavides
- smcin 1y ago
  "oprichnina" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oprichnina https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oprichnina
grafmax 1y ago
It turns out capitalism devolves into authoritarianism too when money gets concentrated enough. Basically any extreme concentration of power (wealth concentration or Stalinism) is going to tend toward this kind of outcome.
- conception 1y ago
  Slight correction, capitalism has no political ideology and craves monopoly. Corporate feudalism and capitalism are totally compatible.
MangoToupe 1y ago
No need to look abroad; companies have gotten away with this kind of stuff for most of the history of the US. Union busting is a particular flashpoint for engaging in illegal activity with the blessing of the government.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

oblio 1y ago

Well, you're probably right for some types of procedures. But this type of thing (surveillance cameras) would actually fall under state security and be ordered by the Central Committee and done top down without any comments anywhere along the line (because everyone understood what was good for them). You're probably thinking of the "we're making the wrong type of tractor ball bearings"/"we're making broken consumer radios" type of issue where yeah, they'd give you the runaround.

trhway 1y ago

It isn't just USSR, it is the core Russian principle of "oprichnina" - you can violate any laws, human or God's, as long as you're serving the tzar, Secretary General or President Putin. We start to see a hint of it here with ICE, and i'm sure we'll see a bit more of it with the newly formed Domestic Terrorism Task Force.

saubeidl 1y ago
> Domestic Terrorism Task Force That is ... a surprisingly honest name for a force that'll terrorize any domestic opposition, gotta give them that at least.
- FireBeyond 1y ago
  It's not hard to draw potential dots: Designate Venezuelan boats as "likely terrorists" (drug dealers). Authorize use of extrajudicial military lethal force (blow up boats with dealers aboard). Justify the above due to "terrorism". Designate "Antifa" as a "domestic terrorism group". Not hard to see the next step of "deploy military force against individuals suspected of being Antifa". No need for pesky trials. They're terrorists. This is a war...
Wololooo 1y ago
And if I'd have to wager anyone that dare speaking out would be labelled antifa, therefore a terrorist, therefore free for all from a law enforcement perspective... Things are going downhill at an impressive pace... Not going to lie watching the Trainwreck in slow motion is entertaining in a sort of morbid way. Though I wished that it wouldn't go that way...
- SlightlyLeftPad 1y ago
  Send help.
- wartywhoa23 1y ago
  Trainwreck spotting is best conducted from outside of the train. I think that most cases of seemingly unwarranted depression and apathy in people today in fact stem from their subconscious acknowledgement of this trainwreck in progress, and failure of consciousness to accept that and/or do anything about it. In other words, mass cognitive dissonance.
  - jrs235 1y ago
    >I think that most cases of seemingly unwarranted depression and apathy in people today in fact stem from their subconscious acknowledgement of this trainwreck in progress, and failure of consciousness to accept that and/or do anything about it I think many sense this, want to get off the train, and away from the tracks but can't figure out how to do it. To pull off it seems overwhelming.
  - saubeidl 1y ago
    First articulated in 2005 by scholar Alexei Yurchak to describe the civilian experience in Soviet Russia, hypernormalization describes life in a society where two main things are happening. The first is people seeing that governing systems and institutions are broken. And the second is that, for reasons including a lack of effective leadership and an inability to imagine how to disrupt the status quo, people carry on with their lives as normal despite systemic dysfunction – give or take a heavy load of fear, dread, denial and dissociation.
- 1y ago
Yeul 1y ago
This mode of operation is completely the reverse of my country the Netherlands. In Dutch society it doesn't really matter who the current ruling party is the big machine keeps rolling on. The names change frequently- governments keep tumbling down- but every day like clockwork people get up in the morning, go to work and follow their programming. Prime minister A is replaced by prime minister B. In some ways having a personality cult is less scary. You can kill a man but how do you destroy a collective?
- blooalien 1y ago
  > "In some ways having a personality cult is less scary. You can kill a man but how do you destroy a collective?" In some ways it's far more terrifying, because of the operative word "cult" there. Sometimes the object of such a "personality cult" can attract the mindset of an actual cult to form around them and create a highly destructive and dangerous "collective". It's happened many times already throughout recorded history, and it never really seems to go all that well for anyone involved.
- mindslight 1y ago
  This is one of the exact frustrations that has led the US to our current open fascism, so try not to take your state of affairs for granted. It's much easier to resist and avoid a bureaucracy (as it mostly operates on predictable rules), than a cult of personality autocrat who chooses new targets by the week.
- ambicapter 1y ago
  You sound like someone who's never experienced a personality cult.
- Terr_ 1y ago
  That's actually comparing two collectives: 1. A collective where there is a belief (however slow or stodgy) in the consistent application of known rules. 2. A collective where the only real rule is to make the cult leader happy even if it means a forest of contradictions and rewriting history. While (2) can easily change on a whim... it's not your whim. Which leads us to the practical question: Which collective do you think you and your community could best fight against when it starts hurting you? I think a majority of the time I'd rather be opposed to (1).
throw0101c 1y ago
> It isn't just USSR, it is the core Russian principle of "oprichnina" - you can violate any laws, human or God's, as long as you're serving the tzar, Secretary General or President Putin. “For my friends everything, for my enemies the law.” — Oscar R. Benavides, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Óscar_R._Benavides https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Óscar_R._Benavides
smcin 1y ago
"oprichnina" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oprichnina https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oprichnina

grafmax 1y ago

It turns out capitalism devolves into authoritarianism too when money gets concentrated enough. Basically any extreme concentration of power (wealth concentration or Stalinism) is going to tend toward this kind of outcome.

conception 1y ago
Slight correction, capitalism has no political ideology and craves monopoly. Corporate feudalism and capitalism are totally compatible.

MangoToupe 1y ago

No need to look abroad; companies have gotten away with this kind of stuff for most of the history of the US. Union busting is a particular flashpoint for engaging in illegal activity with the blessing of the government.