4 ms·

Anonymity is not privacy.

by ycombigators 1y ago

noncoml 1y ago
VPN is not only for anonymity
- ycombigators 1y ago
  I'm not sure what point you are making, but isn't the one I was responding to.
ang_cire 1y ago
The mechanisms that attack one attack the other as well. The apparatuses which exist to de-anonymize communication also remove the ability to definitively keep the content of the communication private, and no government (UK or EU or US, etc) that has proposed a ChatControl-like scheme has ever used a method that did not allow them to do both. If a porn site checks my ID against a gov database, the gov now knows I went to that porn site. That is a loss of both anonymity and privacy.
- anonym29 1y ago
  I'm completely against all infringements of privacy, but, >If a porn site checks my ID against a gov database, the gov now knows I went to that porn site. That is a loss of both anonymity and privacy. This is not necessarily true. It is possible to design systems much more like CRL than OCSP, including identity or even just age verification systems. Consider the FedGov sharing a list of public keys tied to identities of people over the age of 18, updated daily, while issuing corresponding private keys to citizens. The citizens could use their private key to sign a challenge issued by the adult media website, who would simply verify that the public key tied to the signed challenge response exists on the list of all public keys tied to identities of people over 18 issued by the fedgov. With this system, adult websites would not need to send any identifying information to FedGov, nor would private citizens be disclosing any identifying information to the adult website - not their name, not their address, not even their date of birth, just cryptographic proof that they're in possession of a private key that corresponds to the identity of an adult. Sure, kids could still conceivably obtain cryptographic private keys, just as they can obtain photographs of state-issued government ID that are currently used for age verification. The real problem with schemes like these isn't the technical feasibility, but rather the capacity of the citizenry to understand and perform their own cryptographic key management.
  - ang_cire 1y ago
    I have proposed a similar PKI-based system myself before, but no government is proposing this because the point is not to protect children, it's to de-anonymize and surveil.
- ycombigators 1y ago
  Anonymity is eroding our democracies far faster than our privacy.
  - ang_cire 1y ago
    Neither are eroding our democracy. They are both states of information, not actors. What you mean is, bad actors are eroding our democracy using anonymity to avoid negative repercussions, but Fox News, OANN, Newsmax hosts, etc, with their names and faces attached to their message, have hurt democracy far worse and more efficiently than internet trolls, and with even less pushback.

Anonymity is not privacy.

noncoml 1y ago

VPN is not only for anonymity

ycombigators 1y ago
I'm not sure what point you are making, but isn't the one I was responding to.

ang_cire 1y ago

The mechanisms that attack one attack the other as well. The apparatuses which exist to de-anonymize communication also remove the ability to definitively keep the content of the communication private, and no government (UK or EU or US, etc) that has proposed a ChatControl-like scheme has ever used a method that did not allow them to do both. If a porn site checks my ID against a gov database, the gov now knows I went to that porn site. That is a loss of both anonymity and privacy.

anonym29 1y ago
I'm completely against all infringements of privacy, but, >If a porn site checks my ID against a gov database, the gov now knows I went to that porn site. That is a loss of both anonymity and privacy. This is not necessarily true. It is possible to design systems much more like CRL than OCSP, including identity or even just age verification systems. Consider the FedGov sharing a list of public keys tied to identities of people over the age of 18, updated daily, while issuing corresponding private keys to citizens. The citizens could use their private key to sign a challenge issued by the adult media website, who would simply verify that the public key tied to the signed challenge response exists on the list of all public keys tied to identities of people over 18 issued by the fedgov. With this system, adult websites would not need to send any identifying information to FedGov, nor would private citizens be disclosing any identifying information to the adult website - not their name, not their address, not even their date of birth, just cryptographic proof that they're in possession of a private key that corresponds to the identity of an adult. Sure, kids could still conceivably obtain cryptographic private keys, just as they can obtain photographs of state-issued government ID that are currently used for age verification. The real problem with schemes like these isn't the technical feasibility, but rather the capacity of the citizenry to understand and perform their own cryptographic key management.
- ang_cire 1y ago
  I have proposed a similar PKI-based system myself before, but no government is proposing this because the point is not to protect children, it's to de-anonymize and surveil.
ycombigators 1y ago
Anonymity is eroding our democracies far faster than our privacy.
- ang_cire 1y ago
  Neither are eroding our democracy. They are both states of information, not actors. What you mean is, bad actors are eroding our democracy using anonymity to avoid negative repercussions, but Fox News, OANN, Newsmax hosts, etc, with their names and faces attached to their message, have hurt democracy far worse and more efficiently than internet trolls, and with even less pushback.