3 ms·

4 years undergrad (CS, math, bio) 4 years med school 2 years computer science 6 years of residency (intern year, 4 years of DR, 1 year of IR) 16 years...

arethuza 1y ago
Why do you need the first 4 years undergrad - in places like the UK you can go straight to study medicine from secondary school at age ~18?
- chromatin 1y ago
  The belief is -- and it is one that I share -- that this makes for more well rounded, human physicians. Additionally, a greater depth of thinking leads to better diagnosticians, and physician-scientists as well (IMO). Now, all of this is predicated on the traditional model of the University education, not the glorified jobs training program that it has slowly become.
  - hnfong 1y ago
    Cynically, it's also a way for the US system to gatekeep "poor" people from entering professions like medicine and law because of the extra tuition fees (and opportunity time-cost) needed to complete their studies.
    - chromatin 1y ago
      I am a natural skeptic, but in this case I think it is just an accident of history how different systems developed. FWIW, although this is not well known, many medical schools offer combined BA/MD degrees, ranging from 4-8 years: https://students-residents.aamc.org/medical-school-admission-requirements/medical-schools-offering-combined-baccalaureate-md-programs-state-and-program-length-2024-2025 https://students-residents.aamc.org/medical-school-admission... When I went 20 years ago, my school did not require a bachelor's degree and would admit exceptional students after 2 years of undergraduate coursework. However I think this has now gone away everywhere due to AAMC criteria
      - FireBeyond 1y ago
        In Australia, Medicine was/is typically an undergrad degree. In the mid-90s my school started offering a Bachelor of Biomedical Science which was targeted at two audiences - people who wanted to go into Medicine from a research, not clinical perspective, and people who wanted to practice medicine in the US (specifically because it was so laborious for people to get credentialed in the US with a foreign medical degree, that people were starting to say "I will do my pre-med in Australia, and then just go to a US medical school").
  - FireBeyond 1y ago
    When I was in Australia and applying to study medicine (late 90s): Course acceptance is initially driven by academic performance, and ranked scoring. To get into Medicine at Monash and Melbourne Universities, you'd need a TER (Tertiary Entrance Ranking) of 99.8 (i.e. top 0.2% of students). This number was derived by course demand and capacity. But, during my time, Monash was known for having a supplementary interview process with panel and individual interviews - the interview group was composed of faculty, practicing physicians not affiliated with the university, psychologists, and lay community members - specifically with the goal of looking for those well-rounded individuals. It should also be noted that though "undergrad", there's little difference in the roadmap. Indeed when I was applying, the MBBS degree (Bachelor of Medicine and Surgery) was a six-year undergrad (soon revised to five), with similar post grad residency and other requirements for licensure and unrestricted practice.

arethuza 1y ago

Why do you need the first 4 years undergrad - in places like the UK you can go straight to study medicine from secondary school at age ~18?

chromatin 1y ago
The belief is -- and it is one that I share -- that this makes for more well rounded, human physicians. Additionally, a greater depth of thinking leads to better diagnosticians, and physician-scientists as well (IMO). Now, all of this is predicated on the traditional model of the University education, not the glorified jobs training program that it has slowly become.
- hnfong 1y ago
  Cynically, it's also a way for the US system to gatekeep "poor" people from entering professions like medicine and law because of the extra tuition fees (and opportunity time-cost) needed to complete their studies.
  - chromatin 1y ago
    I am a natural skeptic, but in this case I think it is just an accident of history how different systems developed. FWIW, although this is not well known, many medical schools offer combined BA/MD degrees, ranging from 4-8 years: https://students-residents.aamc.org/medical-school-admission-requirements/medical-schools-offering-combined-baccalaureate-md-programs-state-and-program-length-2024-2025 https://students-residents.aamc.org/medical-school-admission... When I went 20 years ago, my school did not require a bachelor's degree and would admit exceptional students after 2 years of undergraduate coursework. However I think this has now gone away everywhere due to AAMC criteria
    - FireBeyond 1y ago
      In Australia, Medicine was/is typically an undergrad degree. In the mid-90s my school started offering a Bachelor of Biomedical Science which was targeted at two audiences - people who wanted to go into Medicine from a research, not clinical perspective, and people who wanted to practice medicine in the US (specifically because it was so laborious for people to get credentialed in the US with a foreign medical degree, that people were starting to say "I will do my pre-med in Australia, and then just go to a US medical school").
- FireBeyond 1y ago
  When I was in Australia and applying to study medicine (late 90s): Course acceptance is initially driven by academic performance, and ranked scoring. To get into Medicine at Monash and Melbourne Universities, you'd need a TER (Tertiary Entrance Ranking) of 99.8 (i.e. top 0.2% of students). This number was derived by course demand and capacity. But, during my time, Monash was known for having a supplementary interview process with panel and individual interviews - the interview group was composed of faculty, practicing physicians not affiliated with the university, psychologists, and lay community members - specifically with the goal of looking for those well-rounded individuals. It should also be noted that though "undergrad", there's little difference in the roadmap. Indeed when I was applying, the MBBS degree (Bachelor of Medicine and Surgery) was a six-year undergrad (soon revised to five), with similar post grad residency and other requirements for licensure and unrestricted practice.