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The U.S. killed less than 6,000 people in their invasion. What you are referring to is a civil war and a terrible comparison for Israel's ongoing war against Ga

The U.S. killed less than 6,000 people in their invasion. What you are referring to is a civil war and a terrible comparison for Israel's ongoing war against Gaza.

mothballed 1y ago
The last Iraq incursion was directly responsible for the rise of ISIS in the area, giving them a stronghold for mass slaughter throughout Iraq and Syria. Saddam Hussein was obviously a murderous psychopath, albeit one who held tight enough reign to mostly subordinate the other psychopaths in the area, so you can ask the question about our culpability in switching that trolley onto a new set of tracks.
- tsunamifury 1y ago
  Yes but the US is not ISIS and did not do that. So be clear and stop conflating.
  - mothballed 1y ago
    That's one take on the trolley problem, but it's a controversial one for a reason.
    - throwawayq3423 1y ago
      US did not kill those people, a civil war did. Flippantly conflating the two things does not do your argument any good.
      - mothballed 1y ago
        The civil war didn't kill those people, the bullets that went into the brain of the casualties did. Flippantly conflating the two things does not do your argument any good. Now of course the bullets were inspired by a guy pulling a trigger, the guy pulling the trigger was inspired by the civil war (more specifically to name one example, the the ISIS-Kurdish one in the northern region of Iraq and Syria), the civil war was inspired by the power vacuum, and the power vacuum was inspired by the toppling of Saddam, and the toppling of Saddam was inspired by the USA blowing up the Iraqi regime. Whether the US is culpable, again, I left as a question. But they did pull the lever for the trolley.
        tsunamifury 1y ago
        You understand by this reductionist logic you are responsible for the sins of the entire world. By being born your actions triggered through your existence all terrible things that have happened since. I can’t believe you’d be this dumb. This is well trodden moral philosophy bullshit.
        mothballed 1y ago
        I can't believe you'd be as dumb as to compare being born to blowing up a bunch of people, leading to hundreds of thousands of excess deaths[] (mostly of civilians), many of which who now with their livelihoods and homes blown up and radicalized against the west, then were easy fodder to join any jihadist with a dollar and a plan with newly equipped with captured M16/M4s and Humvees and freshly freed up territory. And apparently, it's wrong to just question if the USA might have culpability for the aftermath of that. [] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
        throwawayq3423 1y ago
        > And apparently, it's wrong to just question if the USA might have culpability for the aftermath of that. No, but that's a fundamentally different question than answering who was actually fighting and who actually carried out the killings. A very simple distinction if you care to make it. You don't.
        mothballed 1y ago
        You guys are perfectly tag-teaming your gibberish responses. It's cute. I said no such thing, I've never claimed the USA carried out the killings of ISIS.
        throwawayq3423 1y ago
        > I said no such thing, I've never claimed the USA carried out the killings of ISIS. > US killed far more in Iraq, so might be unrelated. Of course the United States is to blame for the Civil War, but it did not carry out the killings. If you think that's only a rhetorical difference, I don't know what to tell you.

The U.S. killed less than 6,000 people in their invasion. What you are referring to is a civil war and a terrible comparison for Israel's ongoing war against Gaza.

mothballed 1y ago

The last Iraq incursion was directly responsible for the rise of ISIS in the area, giving them a stronghold for mass slaughter throughout Iraq and Syria. Saddam Hussein was obviously a murderous psychopath, albeit one who held tight enough reign to mostly subordinate the other psychopaths in the area, so you can ask the question about our culpability in switching that trolley onto a new set of tracks.

tsunamifury 1y ago
Yes but the US is not ISIS and did not do that. So be clear and stop conflating.
- mothballed 1y ago
  That's one take on the trolley problem, but it's a controversial one for a reason.
  - throwawayq3423 1y ago
    US did not kill those people, a civil war did. Flippantly conflating the two things does not do your argument any good.
    - mothballed 1y ago
      The civil war didn't kill those people, the bullets that went into the brain of the casualties did. Flippantly conflating the two things does not do your argument any good. Now of course the bullets were inspired by a guy pulling a trigger, the guy pulling the trigger was inspired by the civil war (more specifically to name one example, the the ISIS-Kurdish one in the northern region of Iraq and Syria), the civil war was inspired by the power vacuum, and the power vacuum was inspired by the toppling of Saddam, and the toppling of Saddam was inspired by the USA blowing up the Iraqi regime. Whether the US is culpable, again, I left as a question. But they did pull the lever for the trolley.
      - tsunamifury 1y ago
        You understand by this reductionist logic you are responsible for the sins of the entire world. By being born your actions triggered through your existence all terrible things that have happened since. I can’t believe you’d be this dumb. This is well trodden moral philosophy bullshit.
        mothballed 1y ago
        I can't believe you'd be as dumb as to compare being born to blowing up a bunch of people, leading to hundreds of thousands of excess deaths[] (mostly of civilians), many of which who now with their livelihoods and homes blown up and radicalized against the west, then were easy fodder to join any jihadist with a dollar and a plan with newly equipped with captured M16/M4s and Humvees and freshly freed up territory. And apparently, it's wrong to just question if the USA might have culpability for the aftermath of that. [] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
        throwawayq3423 1y ago
        > And apparently, it's wrong to just question if the USA might have culpability for the aftermath of that. No, but that's a fundamentally different question than answering who was actually fighting and who actually carried out the killings. A very simple distinction if you care to make it. You don't.
        mothballed 1y ago
        You guys are perfectly tag-teaming your gibberish responses. It's cute. I said no such thing, I've never claimed the USA carried out the killings of ISIS.
        throwawayq3423 1y ago
        > I said no such thing, I've never claimed the USA carried out the killings of ISIS. > US killed far more in Iraq, so might be unrelated. Of course the United States is to blame for the Civil War, but it did not carry out the killings. If you think that's only a rhetorical difference, I don't know what to tell you.