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We work with search providers and ensure that we have zero data retention policies in place. The search results are yours to own and use. You are free to do wh

We work with search providers and ensure that we have zero data retention policies in place. The search results are yours to own and use. You are free to do what you want with it. Of course you are bound by local laws of the legal jurisdiction you are in.

simonw 1y ago
OK, so it looks like you aren't willing to share which providers you are working with. Can you share the rationale for not sharing that information instead?
- mchiang 1y ago
  We have relationships with many providers and I don't want to be seen as promoting or not promoting a specific provider. Some decent privacy-preserving vendors - Brave, Exa, Parallel Web Systems, DuckDuckGo etc We will continue to monitor what's good to improve the output quality and results. Sometimes it could be the combination of providers to yield even better results. If I say one combination right now, and realize another combination is better, and make changes, I wouldn't need to broadcast it each time or risk misrepresenting the feature, which is to have amazing search and research capabilities that can augment models for a superior output.
  - dcreater 1y ago
    This information is very useful to the open source community. Whats the rationale in not "building in the public"? Is Ollama turning its back on the open source community? Also why should we believe ollama web search is better than my locally run searxng server?
    - mchiang 1y ago
      Oh yes! that is why I want to provide the names of the providers we use. I do believe in building in the open. The web search functionality has a very generous free tier (it is behind Ollama's free account to prevent abuse) that allows you to give it a try comparing to running a searxng server locally. On making the search functionality locally -- we made considerations and gave it a try but had trouble around result quality and websites blocking Ollama for making a crawler. Using a hosted API, we can get results for users much faster. I'd want us to revisit this at some point. I believe in having the power of local.
      - langitbiru 1y ago
        How much is the generous free tier? I couldn't find it in the website.
        sandyarmstrong 1y ago
        I believe it's free.
      - dcreater 1y ago
        > I'd want us to revisit this at some point. I believe in having the power of local Thanks! please do!
  - simonw 1y ago
    The reason I care about this is that different providers have different rules about how I can use the results. Brave: https://api-dashboard.search.brave.com/terms-of-service https://api-dashboard.search.brave.com/terms-of-service "Licensee shall not at any time, and shall not permit others to: store the results of the API or any derivative works from the results of the API" Exa: https://exa.ai/assets/Exa_Labs_Terms_of_Service.pdf https://exa.ai/assets/Exa_Labs_Terms_of_Service.pdf "You may not [...] download, modify, copy, distribute, transmit, display, perform, reproduce, duplicate, publish, license, create derivative works from, or offer for sale any information contained on, or obtained from or through, the Services, except for temporary files that are automatically cached by your web browser for display purposes" Many of the things I want to do with a search API are blocked by these rules! So I need to know which rules I am subject to.
    - userbinator 1y ago
      (IANAL) You can normally safely ignore such things.
      - jrvarela56 1y ago
        I agree with you in spirit, but that’s not an answer you can apply when there’s someone else’s money at stake.
      - simonw 1y ago
        My nightmare scenario is that I build my own crucial database of information partially derived from a search API... and then later get into legal trouble which forces me to delete that data, which is now intermingled with other information I've collected.
        avmich 1y ago
        So we don't have just data now, but data-obtained-by-particular-process? If you have a database, should it matter how it was gathered?
        1y ago
  - SpaceNoodled 1y ago
    DuckDuckGo isn't a provider, it's just Bing wearing a duck hat.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
jpencausse 1y ago
Would be curious about legal statement with EU AI Act that kills Bing API (Microsoft switch to Grounding Bing that rephrase the content) Yes, Ephemeral queries must not retain any data, but there is also other rules, for instance it is forbidden for commercial services (where Ollama have a pricing model ?).

simonw 1y ago

OK, so it looks like you aren't willing to share which providers you are working with. Can you share the rationale for not sharing that information instead?

mchiang 1y ago
We have relationships with many providers and I don't want to be seen as promoting or not promoting a specific provider. Some decent privacy-preserving vendors - Brave, Exa, Parallel Web Systems, DuckDuckGo etc We will continue to monitor what's good to improve the output quality and results. Sometimes it could be the combination of providers to yield even better results. If I say one combination right now, and realize another combination is better, and make changes, I wouldn't need to broadcast it each time or risk misrepresenting the feature, which is to have amazing search and research capabilities that can augment models for a superior output.
- dcreater 1y ago
  This information is very useful to the open source community. Whats the rationale in not "building in the public"? Is Ollama turning its back on the open source community? Also why should we believe ollama web search is better than my locally run searxng server?
  - mchiang 1y ago
    Oh yes! that is why I want to provide the names of the providers we use. I do believe in building in the open. The web search functionality has a very generous free tier (it is behind Ollama's free account to prevent abuse) that allows you to give it a try comparing to running a searxng server locally. On making the search functionality locally -- we made considerations and gave it a try but had trouble around result quality and websites blocking Ollama for making a crawler. Using a hosted API, we can get results for users much faster. I'd want us to revisit this at some point. I believe in having the power of local.
    - langitbiru 1y ago
      How much is the generous free tier? I couldn't find it in the website.
      - sandyarmstrong 1y ago
        I believe it's free.
    - dcreater 1y ago
      > I'd want us to revisit this at some point. I believe in having the power of local Thanks! please do!
- simonw 1y ago
  The reason I care about this is that different providers have different rules about how I can use the results. Brave: https://api-dashboard.search.brave.com/terms-of-service https://api-dashboard.search.brave.com/terms-of-service "Licensee shall not at any time, and shall not permit others to: store the results of the API or any derivative works from the results of the API" Exa: https://exa.ai/assets/Exa_Labs_Terms_of_Service.pdf https://exa.ai/assets/Exa_Labs_Terms_of_Service.pdf "You may not [...] download, modify, copy, distribute, transmit, display, perform, reproduce, duplicate, publish, license, create derivative works from, or offer for sale any information contained on, or obtained from or through, the Services, except for temporary files that are automatically cached by your web browser for display purposes" Many of the things I want to do with a search API are blocked by these rules! So I need to know which rules I am subject to.
  - userbinator 1y ago
    (IANAL) You can normally safely ignore such things.
    - jrvarela56 1y ago
      I agree with you in spirit, but that’s not an answer you can apply when there’s someone else’s money at stake.
    - simonw 1y ago
      My nightmare scenario is that I build my own crucial database of information partially derived from a search API... and then later get into legal trouble which forces me to delete that data, which is now intermingled with other information I've collected.
      - avmich 1y ago
        So we don't have just data now, but data-obtained-by-particular-process? If you have a database, should it matter how it was gathered?
        1y ago
- SpaceNoodled 1y ago
  DuckDuckGo isn't a provider, it's just Bing wearing a duck hat.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

jpencausse 1y ago

Would be curious about legal statement with EU AI Act that kills Bing API (Microsoft switch to Grounding Bing that rephrase the content) Yes, Ephemeral queries must not retain any data, but there is also other rules, for instance it is forbidden for commercial services (where Ollama have a pricing model ?).