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Right, which is why broadly-available old-age insurance programs like Medicare and Social Security work. Everyone pays in their own money, to which they are ent

Right, which is why broadly-available old-age insurance programs like Medicare and Social Security work. Everyone pays in their own money, to which they are entitled. So there’s not really any reason to spend that extra $10. It’s also why “Medicare For All” runs into opposition. It’s hard to make the case that a healthy 22-year-old is entitled to a lifetime of free health care before paying a dime into the system.

AnthonyMouse 1y ago
That's just status quo bias. Countries with fully socialized healthcare systems make the same "everyone pays taxes and then everyone gets it" argument for including the healthy 22-year-olds and you can make the same "this person doesn't deserve public money" argument for not providing government benefits to people who have their own wealth. Moreover, it doesn't have anything to do with whether you could modify those programs to cost less money if your primary goal was to lower spending.
- snowwrestler 1y ago
  I am describing factors that have produced the status quo in the U.S., not arguing that the American status quo is correct.
jakelazaroff 1y ago
It's very easy to make that case: healthcare should be a human right, and our society should provide it to every person to the extent that it can. We can just decide to make things public services. No one ever says "wait a minute, kids shouldn't be get to use roads for free before paying a dime into the system." It sounds ridiculous! But for some reason, people buy that logic when it comes to healthcare and college.
- WalterBright 1y ago
  > healthcare should be a human right If you are by yourself, who is obligated to fulfill that right?
  - nenenejej 1y ago
    We are not by ourselves though. Sure compared to 1000AD we might be being a little... precious. But hopefully we can enjoy the fact we invented all this technology to make our lives better and dream for bigger rights than is possible in a dog eat dog barbaric world.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - WalterBright 1y ago
      Note that the Bill of Rights does not enumerate any rights that anyone else is obliged to provide. (Neither does the Declaration of Independence.)
  - jakelazaroff 1y ago
    I don't understand this response. A "right" by definition is about your interactions with other people.
    - WalterBright 1y ago
      By definition? I don't agree. Rights are a part of human nature, endowed by the Creator (or Evolution if you prefer). For example, since slavery was legal before the Civil War, does that mean the slaves had no right to be free?
      - jakelazaroff 1y ago
        No right to be free from what? If you are by yourself, who is there to enslave you? It doesn't matter how how rights are endowed; the entire concept is meaningless except with regard to other humans.
        WalterBright 1y ago
        You have a right to be free from somebody trying to kill you. You do not have a right to force him to do your bidding.
shadowgovt 1y ago
> It’s hard to make the case that a healthy 22-year-old is entitled to a lifetime of free health The economic future potential of a healthy 22-year-old is way higher than an aged 68-year-old. I don't think it's very hard at all to make the case we should be spending money on keeping the 22-year-old healthy, in fact I think it's very easy to tilt so far into claiming it's so that you'd be justifiably accused of cruelty ("what if everyone over 70 were tossed into the Soylent Green vats," etc.)
tverbeure 1y ago
> It’s hard to make the case that a healthy 22-year-old is entitled to a lifetime of free health care before paying a dime into the system. What is so hard about it?
- snowwrestler 1y ago
  It’s objectively hard, as demonstrated by the fact that Medicare For All is not the law. I’m describing why it has not been enacted in America, not making an argument about how I think things should be.
  - shadowgovt 1y ago
    I think you've identified the symptom but misidentified the cause. The majority in the US (as of 2022, according to Gallup) believe healthcare should be universally provided. The majority also believe it should not be a government responsibility. Broadly speaking, the US position is "Our current system sucks and we should be providing people healthcare detached from presence or absence of individual insurance... But also the government cannot be trusted to successfully execute on complex national projects."
izzylan 1y ago
So then lets say a healthy 22-year-old graduates from college at the top of their class. Life's looking up for them. They've already got a job lined up that starts in two weeks and they're excited and energetic about entering the workforce and living on their own as adult. Then suddenly, some random guy in a mustang doing 150 in a 30 jumps the curb and runs over our optimistic 22-year-old, and continues speeding into the distance. A random onlooker witnesses the event and calls an ambulance, who rushes them to the hospital. Thanks to the hard work ICU doctors and surgeons spanning days, our 22-year-old miraculously lives, but is in bad shape. They're never gonna walk again, and they're gonna need weeks of physical therapy just to retrain the fine motor skills required to write and type. All of this, for a variety of factors is gonna cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. On top of the massive hospital bill they're about to be saddled with. I take it that our now not-so-healthy 22-year-old should just go fuck themselves then? They've never paid a dime into the system so why should they be entitled to health care?
- mothballed 1y ago
  >I take it that our now not-so-healthy 22-year-old should just go fuck themselves then? They've never paid a dime into the system so why should they be entitled to health care? No, no one is entitled to the labor of others, not in this scenario where they are 3rd party to the damages. That doesn't even remotely make sense no matter how bad of a sob story you attach to it.
  - ThrowMeAway1618 1y ago
    >No, no one is entitled to the labor of others, not in this scenario where they are 3rd party to the damages. That doesn't even remotely make sense no matter how bad of a sob story you attach to it. Absolutely! We should just Brian Kilmeade[0] those folks too, since they're just a burden on society, right? [0] https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2025/09/17/fox-news-brian-kilmeade-homeless-comment/86181269007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2025/09/17/...
    - mothballed 1y ago
vjvjvjvjghv 1y ago
“ hard to make the case that a healthy 22-year-old is entitled to a lifetime of free health care before paying a dime into the system.” Is it also hard to make the case for them to have police protection or being allowed to use a public park before paying a dime into the system?

AnthonyMouse 1y ago

That's just status quo bias. Countries with fully socialized healthcare systems make the same "everyone pays taxes and then everyone gets it" argument for including the healthy 22-year-olds and you can make the same "this person doesn't deserve public money" argument for not providing government benefits to people who have their own wealth. Moreover, it doesn't have anything to do with whether you could modify those programs to cost less money if your primary goal was to lower spending.

snowwrestler 1y ago
I am describing factors that have produced the status quo in the U.S., not arguing that the American status quo is correct.

jakelazaroff 1y ago

It's very easy to make that case: healthcare should be a human right, and our society should provide it to every person to the extent that it can. We can just decide to make things public services. No one ever says "wait a minute, kids shouldn't be get to use roads for free before paying a dime into the system." It sounds ridiculous! But for some reason, people buy that logic when it comes to healthcare and college.

WalterBright 1y ago
> healthcare should be a human right If you are by yourself, who is obligated to fulfill that right?
- nenenejej 1y ago
  We are not by ourselves though. Sure compared to 1000AD we might be being a little... precious. But hopefully we can enjoy the fact we invented all this technology to make our lives better and dream for bigger rights than is possible in a dog eat dog barbaric world.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - WalterBright 1y ago
    Note that the Bill of Rights does not enumerate any rights that anyone else is obliged to provide. (Neither does the Declaration of Independence.)
- jakelazaroff 1y ago
  I don't understand this response. A "right" by definition is about your interactions with other people.
  - WalterBright 1y ago
    By definition? I don't agree. Rights are a part of human nature, endowed by the Creator (or Evolution if you prefer). For example, since slavery was legal before the Civil War, does that mean the slaves had no right to be free?
    - jakelazaroff 1y ago
      No right to be free from what? If you are by yourself, who is there to enslave you? It doesn't matter how how rights are endowed; the entire concept is meaningless except with regard to other humans.
      - WalterBright 1y ago
        You have a right to be free from somebody trying to kill you. You do not have a right to force him to do your bidding.

shadowgovt 1y ago

> It’s hard to make the case that a healthy 22-year-old is entitled to a lifetime of free health The economic future potential of a healthy 22-year-old is way higher than an aged 68-year-old. I don't think it's very hard at all to make the case we should be spending money on keeping the 22-year-old healthy, in fact I think it's very easy to tilt so far into claiming it's so that you'd be justifiably accused of cruelty ("what if everyone over 70 were tossed into the Soylent Green vats," etc.)

tverbeure 1y ago

> It’s hard to make the case that a healthy 22-year-old is entitled to a lifetime of free health care before paying a dime into the system. What is so hard about it?

snowwrestler 1y ago
It’s objectively hard, as demonstrated by the fact that Medicare For All is not the law. I’m describing why it has not been enacted in America, not making an argument about how I think things should be.
- shadowgovt 1y ago
  I think you've identified the symptom but misidentified the cause. The majority in the US (as of 2022, according to Gallup) believe healthcare should be universally provided. The majority also believe it should not be a government responsibility. Broadly speaking, the US position is "Our current system sucks and we should be providing people healthcare detached from presence or absence of individual insurance... But also the government cannot be trusted to successfully execute on complex national projects."

izzylan 1y ago

So then lets say a healthy 22-year-old graduates from college at the top of their class. Life's looking up for them. They've already got a job lined up that starts in two weeks and they're excited and energetic about entering the workforce and living on their own as adult. Then suddenly, some random guy in a mustang doing 150 in a 30 jumps the curb and runs over our optimistic 22-year-old, and continues speeding into the distance. A random onlooker witnesses the event and calls an ambulance, who rushes them to the hospital. Thanks to the hard work ICU doctors and surgeons spanning days, our 22-year-old miraculously lives, but is in bad shape. They're never gonna walk again, and they're gonna need weeks of physical therapy just to retrain the fine motor skills required to write and type. All of this, for a variety of factors is gonna cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. On top of the massive hospital bill they're about to be saddled with. I take it that our now not-so-healthy 22-year-old should just go fuck themselves then? They've never paid a dime into the system so why should they be entitled to health care?

mothballed 1y ago
>I take it that our now not-so-healthy 22-year-old should just go fuck themselves then? They've never paid a dime into the system so why should they be entitled to health care? No, no one is entitled to the labor of others, not in this scenario where they are 3rd party to the damages. That doesn't even remotely make sense no matter how bad of a sob story you attach to it.
- ThrowMeAway1618 1y ago
  >No, no one is entitled to the labor of others, not in this scenario where they are 3rd party to the damages. That doesn't even remotely make sense no matter how bad of a sob story you attach to it. Absolutely! We should just Brian Kilmeade[0] those folks too, since they're just a burden on society, right? [0] https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2025/09/17/fox-news-brian-kilmeade-homeless-comment/86181269007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2025/09/17/...
  - mothballed 1y ago

vjvjvjvjghv 1y ago

“ hard to make the case that a healthy 22-year-old is entitled to a lifetime of free health care before paying a dime into the system.” Is it also hard to make the case for them to have police protection or being allowed to use a public park before paying a dime into the system?