4 ms·

A key point of the Turing Test was to stop the debates over what constitutes intelligence or not and define something objectively measurable. Here we are again.

by oofbey 1y ago

A key point of the Turing Test was to stop the debates over what constitutes intelligence or not and define something objectively measurable. Here we are again. If a model has a statistical tendency to recommend python scripts over bash, is that a PREFERENCE? Argue it’s not alive and doesn’t have feelings all you want. But putting that aside, it prefers python. Saying the word preference is meaningless is just pedantic and annoying.

komali2 1y ago
The Turing Test is just one guy's idea, there's no consensus on sentience that considers it the last word.
Dilettante_ 1y ago
An LLM then has a preference for Python in the same way a gömböc[1] has a preference to land right-side-up. From my side of the argument, calling this a preference like I have a preference for vanilla milkshakes over coke or my dog has a preference for the longer walk over the short one is what seems pedantic. There is a difference, at least in language, between mechanical processes and living beings' decision-making. Perhaps instead of "preference", "propensity" would be a more broadly applicable term? [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6mb%C3%B6c https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6mb%C3%B6c
sebastiennight 1y ago
Would you say that dice have a preference for landing on numbers larger than 2? because I've noticed they tend to do so about two-thirds of the time.
- oofbey 1y ago
  I would. Certainly if somebody asked me which way dice have a preference to land, over two or not, I’d say “over two” and not say “that’s a stupid question because dice don’t have opinions”. But to each their own. Try explaining ionic bonds to a high schooler without anthropomorphising atoms and their desires for electrons. And then ask yourself why you’re doing that? It’s easier to say and understand with the analogy.
  - Dilettante_ 1y ago
    Is it easier to understand? Is not the root of this sub-thread the fact that someone had false expectations of an LLM's behavior?

by oofbey 1y ago

komali2 1y ago

The Turing Test is just one guy's idea, there's no consensus on sentience that considers it the last word.

Dilettante_ 1y ago

An LLM then has a preference for Python in the same way a gömböc[1] has a preference to land right-side-up. From my side of the argument, calling this a preference like I have a preference for vanilla milkshakes over coke or my dog has a preference for the longer walk over the short one is what seems pedantic. There is a difference, at least in language, between mechanical processes and living beings' decision-making. Perhaps instead of "preference", "propensity" would be a more broadly applicable term? [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6mb%C3%B6c https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6mb%C3%B6c

sebastiennight 1y ago

Would you say that dice have a preference for landing on numbers larger than 2? because I've noticed they tend to do so about two-thirds of the time.

oofbey 1y ago
I would. Certainly if somebody asked me which way dice have a preference to land, over two or not, I’d say “over two” and not say “that’s a stupid question because dice don’t have opinions”. But to each their own. Try explaining ionic bonds to a high schooler without anthropomorphising atoms and their desires for electrons. And then ask yourself why you’re doing that? It’s easier to say and understand with the analogy.
- Dilettante_ 1y ago
  Is it easier to understand? Is not the root of this sub-thread the fact that someone had false expectations of an LLM's behavior?