3 ms·

If you want another data point, you can just look at my company github (https://github.com/orgs/sibyllinesoft/repositories https://github.com/orgs/sibyllinesoft

If you want another data point, you can just look at my company github (https://github.com/orgs/sibyllinesoft/repositories https://github.com/orgs/sibyllinesoft/repositories). ~27 projects in the last 5 weeks, probably on the order of half a million lines of code, and multiple significant projects that are approaching ship readiness (I need to stop tuning algorithms and making stuff gorgeous and just fix installation/ensure cross platform is working, lol).

shafyy 1y ago
Lines of codes is not a measure of anything meaningful on its own. The mere fact that you suggest this as prove that you are more productive makes me think you are not.
- CuriouslyC 1y ago
  The SWE industry is eagerly awaiting your proposed accurate metric. I find that people who dismiss LoC out of hand without supplying better metrics tend to be low performers trying to run for cover.
  - oofbey 1y ago
    Loc is so easy to game. Reformat. Check in a notebook. Move things around. Pointless refactor. If nobody is watching loc, it’s generally a good metric. But as soon as people start valuing it, it becomes useless.
    - sebastiennight 1y ago
      See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart's_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart's_law and, in the case of "Lines of code" as a metric: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_effect
  - dmamills 1y ago
    A metric I'd be interested in is the number of clients you can convince to use this slop.
    - CuriouslyC 1y ago
      That's a sales metric brother.
      - laserlight 1y ago
        I understand that you would prefer to be more “productive” with AI but without any sales than be less productive without AI but with sales. To clarify, people critical of the “productivity increase” argument question whether the productivity is of the useful kind or of the increased useless output kind.
  - troupo 1y ago
    > The SWE industry is eagerly awaiting your proposed accurate metric. There are none. All are various variant of bad. LoC is probably the worst metric of all. Because it says nothing about quality, or features, or number of products shipped. It's also the easiest metric to game. Just write GoF-style Java, and you're off to the races. Don't forget to have a source code license at the beginning of every file. Boom. LoC. The only metrics that barely work are: - features delivered per unit of time. Requires an actual plan for the product, and an understanding that some features will inevitably take a long time - number of bugs delivered per unit of time. This one is somewhat inversely correlated with LoC and features, by the way: the fewer lines of code and/or features, the fewer bugs - number of bugs fixed per unit of time. The faster bugs are fixed the better None of the other bullshit works.
  - wiml 1y ago
    You're new to the industry, aren't you?
  - shafyy 1y ago
    > low performers trying to run for cover Oh no, you've caught me. On a serious note: LoC can be useful in certain cases (e.g. to estimate the complexity of a code base before you dive in, even though it's imperfect here, too). But, as other have said, it's not a good metric for the quality of a software. If anything, I would say fewer LoC is a better indication of high quality software (but again, not very useful metric). There is no simple way to just look at the code and draw conclusions about the quality or usefulness of a piece of software. It depends on sooo many factors. Anybody who tells you otherwise is either naive or lying.
blks 1y ago
So your company is actively shipping tens of thousands of AI-generated lines of code?
mym1990 1y ago
Sooo you launched https://sibylline.dev/ https://sibylline.dev/, which looks like a bunch of AI slop, then spun up a bunch of GitHub repos, seeded them with more AI slop, and tout that you're shipping 500,000 lines of code? I'll pass on this data point.
- CuriouslyC 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - grayhatter 1y ago
    I mean, you're slinging insults so it's hard for me agree he's the toxic person in this conversation...
thegrim33 1y ago
I don't do Rust or Javascript so I can't judge, but I opened a file at random and feel like the commenting probably serves as a good enough code smell. From the one random file I opened: /// Real LSP server implementation for Lens pub struct LensLspServer /// Configuration for the LSP server pub struct LspServerConfig /// Convert search results to LSP locations async fn search_results_to_locations() /// Perform search based on workspace symbol request async fn search_workspace_symbols() /// Search for text in workspace async fn search_text_in_workspace() etc, etc, etc, x1000. I don't see a single piece of logic actually documented with why it's doing what it's doing, or how it works, or why values are what they are, nearly 100% of the comments are just: function-do-x() // Function that does x
- oofbey 1y ago
  Early coding agents wanted to do this - comment every line of code. You used to have to yell at them not to. Now they’ve mostly stopped doing this at all.
- CuriouslyC 1y ago
  Sure, this is a reasonable point, but understand that documentation passes come late, because if you do heavy documentation refinement on a product under feature/implementation drift you just end up with a mess of stale docs and repeated work.
sebastiennight 1y ago
First off, congrats on the progress. Second, as you seem to be an entrepreneur, I would suggest you consider adopting the belief that you've not been productive until the thing's shipped into prod and available for purchase. Until then you've just been active.

shafyy 1y ago

Lines of codes is not a measure of anything meaningful on its own. The mere fact that you suggest this as prove that you are more productive makes me think you are not.

CuriouslyC 1y ago
The SWE industry is eagerly awaiting your proposed accurate metric. I find that people who dismiss LoC out of hand without supplying better metrics tend to be low performers trying to run for cover.
- oofbey 1y ago
  Loc is so easy to game. Reformat. Check in a notebook. Move things around. Pointless refactor. If nobody is watching loc, it’s generally a good metric. But as soon as people start valuing it, it becomes useless.
  - sebastiennight 1y ago
    See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart's_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart's_law and, in the case of "Lines of code" as a metric: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_effect
- dmamills 1y ago
  A metric I'd be interested in is the number of clients you can convince to use this slop.
  - CuriouslyC 1y ago
    That's a sales metric brother.
    - laserlight 1y ago
      I understand that you would prefer to be more “productive” with AI but without any sales than be less productive without AI but with sales. To clarify, people critical of the “productivity increase” argument question whether the productivity is of the useful kind or of the increased useless output kind.
- troupo 1y ago
  > The SWE industry is eagerly awaiting your proposed accurate metric. There are none. All are various variant of bad. LoC is probably the worst metric of all. Because it says nothing about quality, or features, or number of products shipped. It's also the easiest metric to game. Just write GoF-style Java, and you're off to the races. Don't forget to have a source code license at the beginning of every file. Boom. LoC. The only metrics that barely work are: - features delivered per unit of time. Requires an actual plan for the product, and an understanding that some features will inevitably take a long time - number of bugs delivered per unit of time. This one is somewhat inversely correlated with LoC and features, by the way: the fewer lines of code and/or features, the fewer bugs - number of bugs fixed per unit of time. The faster bugs are fixed the better None of the other bullshit works.
- wiml 1y ago
  You're new to the industry, aren't you?
- shafyy 1y ago
  > low performers trying to run for cover Oh no, you've caught me. On a serious note: LoC can be useful in certain cases (e.g. to estimate the complexity of a code base before you dive in, even though it's imperfect here, too). But, as other have said, it's not a good metric for the quality of a software. If anything, I would say fewer LoC is a better indication of high quality software (but again, not very useful metric). There is no simple way to just look at the code and draw conclusions about the quality or usefulness of a piece of software. It depends on sooo many factors. Anybody who tells you otherwise is either naive or lying.

blks 1y ago

So your company is actively shipping tens of thousands of AI-generated lines of code?

mym1990 1y ago

Sooo you launched https://sibylline.dev/ https://sibylline.dev/, which looks like a bunch of AI slop, then spun up a bunch of GitHub repos, seeded them with more AI slop, and tout that you're shipping 500,000 lines of code? I'll pass on this data point.

CuriouslyC 1y ago
[flagged]
- grayhatter 1y ago
  I mean, you're slinging insults so it's hard for me agree he's the toxic person in this conversation...

thegrim33 1y ago

I don't do Rust or Javascript so I can't judge, but I opened a file at random and feel like the commenting probably serves as a good enough code smell. From the one random file I opened: /// Real LSP server implementation for Lens pub struct LensLspServer /// Configuration for the LSP server pub struct LspServerConfig /// Convert search results to LSP locations async fn search_results_to_locations() /// Perform search based on workspace symbol request async fn search_workspace_symbols() /// Search for text in workspace async fn search_text_in_workspace() etc, etc, etc, x1000. I don't see a single piece of logic actually documented with why it's doing what it's doing, or how it works, or why values are what they are, nearly 100% of the comments are just: function-do-x() // Function that does x

oofbey 1y ago
Early coding agents wanted to do this - comment every line of code. You used to have to yell at them not to. Now they’ve mostly stopped doing this at all.
CuriouslyC 1y ago
Sure, this is a reasonable point, but understand that documentation passes come late, because if you do heavy documentation refinement on a product under feature/implementation drift you just end up with a mess of stale docs and repeated work.

sebastiennight 1y ago

First off, congrats on the progress. Second, as you seem to be an entrepreneur, I would suggest you consider adopting the belief that you've not been productive until the thing's shipped into prod and available for purchase. Until then you've just been active.