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It would be only just if the Palestinians would get their own state after this.
by sharpshadow 1y ago
It would be only just if the Palestinians would get their own state after this.
- barbazoo 1y agoAnd their own datacenter!
- skinkestek 1y ago[flagged]
- cowpig 1y agoYou are thinking of "Palestinians" as a collective group, synonymous with a group of extremists who have done horrible things Just as most of the citizens of Iran are victims of an Islamic totalitarian government, just as many Germans were victims of the fascist dictatorship that took hold of their nation, most human beings living near the southeast bit of the Levantine Sea are victims of actions outside their control. They're collectively paying the price for horrific violence on both sides of an ugly, tragic conflict that they have no power over. Giving those victims some sovereignty and peace would not be "rewarding" extremists, it would be taking a tiny step towards sanity.
- skinkestek 1y agoSo, do we owe Germany an apology after we obliterated it to stop the nazis? Or is it kind of logical that when you vote actual genocidal maniacs into power and cheer for them as they return from murder and rape, you hide the hostages they took and refuse to do anything to stop them, then maybe you aren't completely innocent?
- buellerbueller 1y ago>when you vote actual genocidal maniacs into power [with the financial backing of Netanyahu] I think you omitted part of it.
- skinkestek 1y agoThe financial backing of Netanyahu: Not withholding UN funds that Israel was tasked with distributing, right?
- Fraterkes 1y agoCan you make this a bit clearer for me? Quantify it? How much hardship should someone endure to make up for voting for Hamas? Losing a home? A limb? A friend? A child?
- skinkestek 1y agoHistorically you can look at Germany in 1944 and 1945 and get an idea about what people think is fair. Hope this helps.
- Fraterkes 1y agoWhy can’t you just say what you mean? Are you embarrassed?
- tdeck 1y agoYou seem to be unaware of all the Palestinian hostages Israel has been taking for decades. Thousands of people locked up without trial or charges, many of them children. Please educate yourself.
- skinkestek 1y agoYou don't see the difference between imprisoning people that attack you and taking care of them (mostly, exceptions sadly exist) and storming a music festival and houses to abduct completely innocent teenagers and even toddlers to use them for leverage? Honestly?
- komali2 1y agoThere is no justification for Israel's occupation and apartheid of Palestine. The attacks on civilians are unjustifiable as well but the trigger for them wasn't random - Hamas never would have come to power if Israel didn't occupy Palestine, let alone fund Hamas with the explicit stayed goal by Benjamin Netanyahu to divide Palestinian politics. Look to Israel, the source of decades of suffering for everyone in the region, including its own citizens whom it exposes to retaliatory violence in response to the violence it delivers to its neighbors.
- skinkestek 1y agoThat would be a valid point if they were guilty of "occupation and apartheid of Palestine" and the situation wasn't just a military administration of land that has been unclaimed since 1917 and the collapse of the Ottoman empire.
- komali2 1y agoYes, I know you're deeply steeped in Israeli propaganda, that doesn't mean you have to function as a mouthpiece for it. Hopefully you have decades left in your life. One from now, I would be immensely grateful if you emailed me and let me know your perspective on your past-self's defense of genocide.
- thrownawayohman 1y ago“Now imagine this scenario and ignore everything else that’s happened for the last 60-70 years and oh yeah, don’t mention the current genocide.”
- skinkestek 1y agoLet's not ignore the last 60-70 or even 1400 years. Israelis hit back hard. But they haven't been the ones to declare war on peaceful neighbors. It wasn't them who stood for thr München massacre or a number of plane hijackings in the 70ies. It wasn't Israelis who blew up buses in Gaza. Was it? We must stop confusing powerful with evil and currently helpless with "innocent".
- brendoelfrendo 1y agoIf the powerful are genociding the helpless, then the powerful are evil. It doesn't matter who hit whom first.
- skinkestek 1y agoThe point is a conflict that the victim can choose to end anytime they want isn't a genocide, no matter how UN tries to twist one of the legal definitions into something that can be interpretated as one.
- brendoelfrendo 1y agoBoy I would love to hear how the innocent Palestinians who are starving and whose homes have been destroyed can end this conflict at any time.
- thrownawayohman 1y ago[flagged]
- skinkestek 1y ago
- saghm 1y agoThe article is discussing "mass surveilance" of millions of phone calls per day. Whatever scenario you're trying to describe isn't at all reflective of what's being discussed here.
- RajT88 1y agoOther commenters are right, but I'll point out another fallacy you're pushing here. The current situation is like somebody commits a murder. Then the community rounds up a posse and goes out to kill the murderer. Then kill the murder's family, their neighbors, the residents of the next neighborhood over, raze the neighborhoods and then take all the land for themselves. Justice means penalizing the guilty parties, not everyone in their geographical/social group. Your definition of Justice is leaky.
- dotancohen 1y agoBut isn't that what Hamas did? Broke into homes and burned babies to death? Beheaded people? Pulled fetuses from pregnant women? Shoot up clinics and murder the entire staff and patients?
- ARandumGuy 1y agoNothing Hamas has done justifies what Israel is doing to Palestinian civilians, because collective punishment is a war crime. "But they did it first" is not a valid excuse, especially when trying to excuse mass starvation and bombing population centers.
- dotancohen 1y ago[flagged]
- skinkestek 1y agoUnder 60 000 British died during the Bliz. 350 000 to 500 000 Germans died in allied bombing. Did the Germans become the good guys when the German civilian death toll exceeded the UK death toll? Or even just when US got involved since Germany hadn't attacked US civilians? No?
- SilverElfin 1y agoIs it collective punishment or just really difficult to successful take down terrorists, destroy their weapons, and free hostages when they hide among civilians in a highly dense place? How would you suggest a country like Israel could definitely put an end to Hamas so their citizens are not experiencing risk? And how do you separate the “civilians” from Hamas when they voted for Hamas, support them today, and so on, knowing full well what their goals are (religious supremacy and genocide)?
- jalapenod 1y ago[dead]
- lupusreal 1y agoRight of return for all Palestinians and their descendants, worldwide.
- vkou 1y agoLet's not get too far ahead of ourselves, here, that would have the stench of colonialism about it. It's not their land to 'return to' - after all, people already live there and they have no moral right to displace them.
- lupusreal 1y agoThey have been deliberately displaced by Israeli's apartheid government giving Jewish people around the world a "right to return" to Israel. Except unlike the Palestinians, they were never from Israel in the first place so the term "right to return" as used by Israel is nothing but colonialist propaganda. Undoing colonialism isn't colonialism.
- lazide 1y agoIt’s all just the ‘hopes and prayers’ of the left anyway. When someone doesn’t give a damn (like Israel right now), all the public shaming is just another version of the UN’s strongly worded letter.
- hashim 1y agoYes, the shameless and evil generally aren't to be reasoned with, in which case things will come to a head and there are other ways to stop genocides. See for example, the Nazis.
- albulab 1y agoHey chatgpt how many jews displaced from Arab countries in 1948? and how many descendants they have today?
- 1y ago
- dotancohen 1y ago[flagged]
- basilgohar 1y agoTheir own land, of course, where they've lived for thousands of years.
- dotancohen 1y agoSerious question, what do you think is their own land? And what exactly makes you think it is their land? Are you aware that most of the Arabs of the Holy Land came around the same time period as the Jews? There were Arabs living here previously, of course, as were there living here Jews. Half a century before the British mandate, Jerusalem was already Jewish majority. > where they've lived for thousands of years. The only reason that Jews in the West Bank are called settlers is because the Jews were ethnically cleansed from the West Bank in 1948, and that territory was free of Jews for 19 years. Other than those 19 years, the Jews had been here far longer than the Arab colonizers had been.
- basilgohar 1y ago[flagged]
- js212 1y agoJews are an ethnicity and are genetically the same. Even those from Europe and those from Muslim countries (who now live in Israel after getting kicked out of Muslim countries). Stop making stuff up. Ohhh and Muslims didn’t treat Jews “peacefully”. They were second class citizens and often massacred. Read some history.
- basilgohar 1y agoNo, Jews of today are ethnically quite diverse and have mixed significantly. There are several recognized heritages of Jews of today with known populations from North Africa, the Middle East, Iran, and also Europe. I don't deny the "Jewishness" of anyone, but say "The Jews" as if this covers all of them is wrong. There are huge swaths of Jews today that are anti-Zionist and consider Israel an abomination on religious grounds. That it is a religious goal to have a nation of Israel is a new idea driven by Christian Zionists more than Jewish ones and the political, areligious Jewish Zionists enjoy their support and will play any role to achieve their own goals. The recent newly emerging religious Jewish Zionists are a divergence from mainstream Judaism and a recent development that relies on a lot of creative interpretation and ignorance of Jewish religious texts. And yes, Muslims and Jews lived over 1000 years far more peacefully than any time before. Jerusalem and the rest of the Palestine was at peace under Muslim rule except for the Crusades which, surprise, came from Europe.
- bhouston 1y ago> It would be only just if the Palestinians would get their own state after this. This seems off topic. I will flag it.
- albulab 1y ago[flagged]