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> What about the savings https://doge.gov/savings https://doge.gov/savings? Are they a bad thing? Cost versus value. E.g, what kind of soft power did the US lo

> What about the savings https://doge.gov/savings https://doge.gov/savings? Are they a bad thing? Cost versus value. E.g, what kind of soft power did the US lose when they shredded USAID? What kinds of medical research will not be done because of cuts to NIH: * https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nih-layoffs-budget-cuts-medical-research-60-minutes/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nih-layoffs-budget-cuts-medical... What kind of tax revenue will be lost because the IRS is even more short-staffed and cannot investigate fraud: * https://apnews.com/article/irs-doge-layoffs-tax-season-0659e4b439400bf66023273f6a532fa0 https://apnews.com/article/irs-doge-layoffs-tax-season-0659e... For a comparison of DOGE's falsifiable/verifiable claims and reality see: * https://www.slowboring.com/p/yes-doge-failed-and-it-matters https://www.slowboring.com/p/yes-doge-failed-and-it-matters

sejje 1y ago
That's a good argument to have about whether we should go after the savings or not. But it sounds like you agree they're savings.
- gurleen_s 1y ago
  Obviously they’re savings, but in the same way that cutting your arm off will make you weigh less. That’s not a useful topic to discuss.
- kube-system 1y ago
  If you defer costs or trade monetary costs for non-monetary costs, you aren't "saving", you're just moving them around. You can stop changing the oil on your car and show a couple hundred dollars of savings on paper over the next year or two ... but you will incur tens of thousands of costs consequentially.
- throw0101d 1y ago
  > But it sounds like you agree they're savings. I have no idea if what is posted on the site is actually valid. But even if it was, you can "save" money by not doing oil changes for your car, but what do you think will happen to your engine? How much will that cost you eventually? So whether the (alleged) savings will actually end up costing less (over the long term) is something that will have to be determined over time: * https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/penny_wise_and_pound_foolish https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/penny_wise_and_pound_foolish
  - jay_kyburz 1y ago
    Yeah, but at some point you have to realize you can't afford a car any more and you should sell it. You can get another one when you are on top of the debt. People (and nations) need to live within their means.
    - lomase 1y ago
      "People live beyond their posibilities" This was something the gov said to us in my country 20 years ago. What came later was recesion for 10 years. Good luck.
    - throw0101d 1y ago
      > Yeah, but at some point you have to realize you can't afford a car any more and you should sell it. You can get another one when you are on top of the debt. The Pentagon spends in two weeks what USAID (or NASA) spent in a year. The proverbial oil change is not what is causing the financial issue in the analogical car example: in fact, a bit of preventative spending (oil change: USAID social programs) may be cheaper because it reduces the chances of a large expense (engine rebuild: major war/conflict/attack). > Staff at the State Department’s Office of Countering Violent Extremism and Bureau of Conflict and Stabilization Operations, which led U.S. anti-violent extremism efforts, were laid off, the units shuttered, on July 11, 2025. > This dismantling of the country’s terrorism and extremism prevention programs began in February 2025. That’s when staff of USAID’s Bureau of Conflict Prevention and Stabilization were put on leave. * https://theconversation.com/trump-administration-cuts-to-terrorism-prevention-departments-could-leave-americans-exposed-261630 https://theconversation.com/trump-administration-cuts-to-ter... Do you want to spend money on having to deal with terrorist cell attacks, or do you want to potentially not have the cells form in the first place? * https://www.polisci.pitt.edu/sites/default/files/Foreign%20Aid%20as%20Counterterrorism.pdf https://www.polisci.pitt.edu/sites/default/files/Foreign%20A... And if there is concern about deficits/debt, perhaps don't cut revenues (taxes), or lay off IRS workers that can bring in more revenue.
      - jay_kyburz 1y ago
        Sure, if you were asking _me_ where I would save money, defense would be ahead of aid. My point that the US debt is staggering, and it might take more than just skipping an oil change, you might need to do something drastic like selling the car.
- mindslight 1y ago
  When a parent stocks up on a bunch of bland tasting generic imitation food because "it was on sale", and then the kids get tired of it so they stop eating it, do you consider that "savings" ? In my book, that's called being "penny wise, pound foolish".
actionfromafar 1y ago
Que a lot of comments about how soft power is a not even a thing... sigh
- drak0n1c 1y ago
  Some of the USAID spending arguably was self-defeating for soft power. What I've heard from multiple Japanese family members is that the subsidies and policy pressure for LGBT programs and refugee acceptance felt like narcissistic cultural imperialism and soured their opinion of the US-Japan alliance.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - actionfromafar 1y ago
    I am sure the Japanese love the new Trump alliance. Like making deals with a pair of dice.
ChocolateGod 1y ago
Europe spent the last few decades focussing on being a soft power, yet that did nothing to stop Russia, wars in the middle east or the ongoing migrant crisis.
- slightwinder 1y ago
  It stopped Russia and other conflicts for the last decades... It's still preserving peace in Europe. But there is no perfect solution. There always will be a maniac doing stupid shit because their personal benefit is more valuable for them than the greater good of everyone else. We are now in such a phase again, where all kind of maniacs have become loose, wasting societies for fun and giggles... We will have what we will make of it.

sejje 1y ago

That's a good argument to have about whether we should go after the savings or not. But it sounds like you agree they're savings.

gurleen_s 1y ago
Obviously they’re savings, but in the same way that cutting your arm off will make you weigh less. That’s not a useful topic to discuss.
kube-system 1y ago
If you defer costs or trade monetary costs for non-monetary costs, you aren't "saving", you're just moving them around. You can stop changing the oil on your car and show a couple hundred dollars of savings on paper over the next year or two ... but you will incur tens of thousands of costs consequentially.
throw0101d 1y ago
> But it sounds like you agree they're savings. I have no idea if what is posted on the site is actually valid. But even if it was, you can "save" money by not doing oil changes for your car, but what do you think will happen to your engine? How much will that cost you eventually? So whether the (alleged) savings will actually end up costing less (over the long term) is something that will have to be determined over time: * https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/penny_wise_and_pound_foolish https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/penny_wise_and_pound_foolish
- jay_kyburz 1y ago
  Yeah, but at some point you have to realize you can't afford a car any more and you should sell it. You can get another one when you are on top of the debt. People (and nations) need to live within their means.
  - lomase 1y ago
    "People live beyond their posibilities" This was something the gov said to us in my country 20 years ago. What came later was recesion for 10 years. Good luck.
  - throw0101d 1y ago
    > Yeah, but at some point you have to realize you can't afford a car any more and you should sell it. You can get another one when you are on top of the debt. The Pentagon spends in two weeks what USAID (or NASA) spent in a year. The proverbial oil change is not what is causing the financial issue in the analogical car example: in fact, a bit of preventative spending (oil change: USAID social programs) may be cheaper because it reduces the chances of a large expense (engine rebuild: major war/conflict/attack). > Staff at the State Department’s Office of Countering Violent Extremism and Bureau of Conflict and Stabilization Operations, which led U.S. anti-violent extremism efforts, were laid off, the units shuttered, on July 11, 2025. > This dismantling of the country’s terrorism and extremism prevention programs began in February 2025. That’s when staff of USAID’s Bureau of Conflict Prevention and Stabilization were put on leave. * https://theconversation.com/trump-administration-cuts-to-terrorism-prevention-departments-could-leave-americans-exposed-261630 https://theconversation.com/trump-administration-cuts-to-ter... Do you want to spend money on having to deal with terrorist cell attacks, or do you want to potentially not have the cells form in the first place? * https://www.polisci.pitt.edu/sites/default/files/Foreign%20Aid%20as%20Counterterrorism.pdf https://www.polisci.pitt.edu/sites/default/files/Foreign%20A... And if there is concern about deficits/debt, perhaps don't cut revenues (taxes), or lay off IRS workers that can bring in more revenue.
    - jay_kyburz 1y ago
      Sure, if you were asking _me_ where I would save money, defense would be ahead of aid. My point that the US debt is staggering, and it might take more than just skipping an oil change, you might need to do something drastic like selling the car.
mindslight 1y ago
When a parent stocks up on a bunch of bland tasting generic imitation food because "it was on sale", and then the kids get tired of it so they stop eating it, do you consider that "savings" ? In my book, that's called being "penny wise, pound foolish".

actionfromafar 1y ago

Que a lot of comments about how soft power is a not even a thing... sigh

drak0n1c 1y ago
Some of the USAID spending arguably was self-defeating for soft power. What I've heard from multiple Japanese family members is that the subsidies and policy pressure for LGBT programs and refugee acceptance felt like narcissistic cultural imperialism and soured their opinion of the US-Japan alliance.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- actionfromafar 1y ago
  I am sure the Japanese love the new Trump alliance. Like making deals with a pair of dice.

ChocolateGod 1y ago

Europe spent the last few decades focussing on being a soft power, yet that did nothing to stop Russia, wars in the middle east or the ongoing migrant crisis.

slightwinder 1y ago
It stopped Russia and other conflicts for the last decades... It's still preserving peace in Europe. But there is no perfect solution. There always will be a maniac doing stupid shit because their personal benefit is more valuable for them than the greater good of everyone else. We are now in such a phase again, where all kind of maniacs have become loose, wasting societies for fun and giggles... We will have what we will make of it.