5 ms·

The whole point of Doge was to fire the agencies that were investigating all of Musk's companies that were breaking laws. That and getting rid of competent peop

by exe34 1y ago

The whole point of Doge was to fire the agencies that were investigating all of Musk's companies that were breaking laws. That and getting rid of competent people who might stand up to the orangefuhrer.

corralal 1y ago
Do you have an example of a cut to something that was investigating Musk? I'm not saying you're wrong - I have no clue and I'm truly curious.
- trymas 1y ago
  One internet search away: https://qz.com/elon-musk-doge-nhtsa-tesla-neuralink-spacex-fda-faa-1851765781 https://qz.com/elon-musk-doge-nhtsa-tesla-neuralink-spacex-f...
  - parineum 1y ago
    Which one was "investigating" musk?
    - exe34 1y ago
      https://democrats-judiciary.house.gov/uploadedfiles/2025.02.13_fact_sheet_re_musk_investigations.pdf https://democrats-judiciary.house.gov/uploadedfiles/2025.02....
      - parineum 1y ago
        Broken link.
        exe34 1y ago
        Apologies, it seems to move every few months. https://democrats-judiciary.house.gov/sites/evo-subsites/democrats-judiciary.house.gov/files/migrated/UploadedFiles/2025.02.13_Fact_Sheet_re_Musk_Investigations.pdf https://democrats-judiciary.house.gov/sites/evo-subsites/dem...
        parineum 1y ago
        Generously, two of those I would classify as "investigating" with only one actually using that word but the investigation started in 2023 and I've heard nothing of it. He and his businesses have had several interactions with the federal government of varying antagonism but this is nothing like Trump firing Comey. I think that it's pretty apparent that the pdf you linked is a pretty partisan document that makes a lot of tenuous links between Musk recommending firing the low level employees and his interactions with the heads of those agencies.
        ModernMech 1y ago
        It is not unreasonable to expect that someone given this level of trust over the government should not have even an appearance of a conflict of interest. The mere fact that he himself is someone who is the beneficiary of billions of dollars of spending is an actual conflict.
        parineum 1y ago
        I don't disagree with that at all but the appearance of a potential conflict of interest is a far cry from the assertion that the op made which is an exaggeration of the document linked which is an exaggeration of the appearance of conflict of interest.
        ModernMech 1y ago
        I agree, but either way it's disqualifying.
  - dfe 1y ago
    It is upsetting to me that people have so much trouble sifting fact from opinion or narrative. The fact is that DOGE made cuts to NHTSA. It is also a fact that DOGE made cuts to a bunch of agencies, not just ones related to something Elon was doing. There isn’t even any evidence that DOGE was more aggressive about cutting things related to Elon vs other government waste. Instead, all we have is an opinion by a reporter at an organization with a known bias for promoting the increase of government. The opinion is that the reason is to cut people specifically going after Elon. And to be clear I gave no opinion on what Elon did or didn’t do. My problem is I’m tired of living in a world where everyone assumes that anyone not in 100% agreement with their policies must of course be doing something nefarious. What if instead of repeating everyone know Elon is crazy and everyone knows Elon is corrupt and everyone knows this and that… what if we actually tried to analyze it rationally and sift through the news stories looking at the things that are definitely factually true vs. the authors opinions we happen to like because we want to imagine some people are awful and others are saints.
    - trymas 1y ago
      > What if instead of repeating everyone know Elon is crazy and everyone knows Elon is corrupt and everyone knows this and that… what if we actually tried to analyze it rationally and sift through the news stories looking at the things that are definitely factually true vs. the authors opinions we happen to like because we want to imagine some people are awful and others are saints. How doge isn't a plain dictionary definition of corruption? A private citizen given a power to destroy organisations that overlook that citizens businesses? It used to be that in such cases that private citizen then must give up their rights to their businesses (or some other way of avoiding conflict of interest).
      - phkahler 1y ago
        The one they did the most damage to was probably USAID. They didnt have anything to do with Elons businesses. Meanwhile the FAA was still blocking starship flights.
        voltaireodactyl 1y ago
- tremon 1y ago
  https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/trump-elon-musk-doge-weaken-regulators-1235284085/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/trum...
- c420 1y ago
  It's impossible to prove intent. With the exception of the NHTSA, the following agencies were gutted, each whose jurisdiction covered his business interests. In the case of the NHTSA, about half of the team that oversees autonomous vehicle safely was let go [1]. NHTSA, CFPB, DoT (FAA), DoE [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2025/02/21/musk-doge-tesla-autonomous-vehicles-nhtsa/?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2025/02/21/musk-doge...
- nicce 1y ago
  Starship ban was immediately lifted once Musk got in power. Look the dates. https://www.propublica.org/article/elon-musk-spacex-doge-faa-ast-regulation-spaceflight-trump https://www.propublica.org/article/elon-musk-spacex-doge-faa... https://www.cnbc.com/2025/02/28/faa-clears-spacex-for-starship-test-flight-after-explosion-in-january.html https://www.cnbc.com/2025/02/28/faa-clears-spacex-for-starsh...
1121redblackgo 1y ago
I think the self-dealing and getting rid of oversight was a very welcome bonus, but I think they genuinely thought they were the good guys coming to clean up government. Their methods were tragically ineffective as every serious person predicted. We have fiscal issues, clearly, and they thought they were doing good work, but it was an absolute failure and many of the issues still remain, and were exacerbated by what DOGE did. That’s what C- brains bring to a project.
- Finnucane 1y ago
  In other words, their heads were so far up their own asses they couldn't distinguish between self-dealing and public good.
- lesuorac 1y ago
  Well, the guys on the ground might be useful idiots [1]. But at the top there's no way they thought they were doing anything but dumping stuff into the trash. Which when the EPA / etc are the only organizations large enough to stand up to you is uh very good for you. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot
- MengerSponge 1y ago
  "You got your chocolate in my peanut butter!" Kakistocracy edition
nitwit005 1y ago
I suspect Musk didn't know what his own goals were. The whole thing seemed more about emotion than logic. I believe you're correct that he viewed the bureaucracy as a sort of foe, but that idea is somewhat paradoxical. You need employees to do anything. Fire everyone and Trump ends up nearly powerless. He sort of figured out the basics of how the government worked as he went along, but a little late at that point: https://www.reddit.com/r/mmt_economics/comments/1jdkz81/elon_must_stumbles_upon_mmt_without_realizing_it/ https://www.reddit.com/r/mmt_economics/comments/1jdkz81/elon...
Marazan 1y ago
This is a nice story but just doesn't hold up to the evidence of what was "cut". The reason people lie it as a story is because it makes everything have a logical sense to it. It brings reason to the disorder, and people hate chaos so cling to this Machivaleian mirage of a plan. An evil plan is better than chaos. Even if it is not true. However there _is_ an underlying reason to _some_ of the DOGE vandalism, and that is that Elon Musk's personal social media feed is a brain destroying fire hose of far right racism and conspiracy theories. One of the big boogey men of the far right racist conspiracy theories was USAID. So that is why USAID was shut down with the consequent loss of thousands upon thousands of lives. Because Musk believes bullshit he reads on the internet.

by exe34 1y ago

corralal 1y ago

Do you have an example of a cut to something that was investigating Musk? I'm not saying you're wrong - I have no clue and I'm truly curious.

trymas 1y ago
One internet search away: https://qz.com/elon-musk-doge-nhtsa-tesla-neuralink-spacex-fda-faa-1851765781 https://qz.com/elon-musk-doge-nhtsa-tesla-neuralink-spacex-f...
- parineum 1y ago
  Which one was "investigating" musk?
  - exe34 1y ago
    https://democrats-judiciary.house.gov/uploadedfiles/2025.02.13_fact_sheet_re_musk_investigations.pdf https://democrats-judiciary.house.gov/uploadedfiles/2025.02....
    - parineum 1y ago
      Broken link.
      - exe34 1y ago
        Apologies, it seems to move every few months. https://democrats-judiciary.house.gov/sites/evo-subsites/democrats-judiciary.house.gov/files/migrated/UploadedFiles/2025.02.13_Fact_Sheet_re_Musk_Investigations.pdf https://democrats-judiciary.house.gov/sites/evo-subsites/dem...
        parineum 1y ago
        Generously, two of those I would classify as "investigating" with only one actually using that word but the investigation started in 2023 and I've heard nothing of it. He and his businesses have had several interactions with the federal government of varying antagonism but this is nothing like Trump firing Comey. I think that it's pretty apparent that the pdf you linked is a pretty partisan document that makes a lot of tenuous links between Musk recommending firing the low level employees and his interactions with the heads of those agencies.
        ModernMech 1y ago
        It is not unreasonable to expect that someone given this level of trust over the government should not have even an appearance of a conflict of interest. The mere fact that he himself is someone who is the beneficiary of billions of dollars of spending is an actual conflict.
        parineum 1y ago
        I don't disagree with that at all but the appearance of a potential conflict of interest is a far cry from the assertion that the op made which is an exaggeration of the document linked which is an exaggeration of the appearance of conflict of interest.
        ModernMech 1y ago
        I agree, but either way it's disqualifying.
- dfe 1y ago
  It is upsetting to me that people have so much trouble sifting fact from opinion or narrative. The fact is that DOGE made cuts to NHTSA. It is also a fact that DOGE made cuts to a bunch of agencies, not just ones related to something Elon was doing. There isn’t even any evidence that DOGE was more aggressive about cutting things related to Elon vs other government waste. Instead, all we have is an opinion by a reporter at an organization with a known bias for promoting the increase of government. The opinion is that the reason is to cut people specifically going after Elon. And to be clear I gave no opinion on what Elon did or didn’t do. My problem is I’m tired of living in a world where everyone assumes that anyone not in 100% agreement with their policies must of course be doing something nefarious. What if instead of repeating everyone know Elon is crazy and everyone knows Elon is corrupt and everyone knows this and that… what if we actually tried to analyze it rationally and sift through the news stories looking at the things that are definitely factually true vs. the authors opinions we happen to like because we want to imagine some people are awful and others are saints.
  - trymas 1y ago
    > What if instead of repeating everyone know Elon is crazy and everyone knows Elon is corrupt and everyone knows this and that… what if we actually tried to analyze it rationally and sift through the news stories looking at the things that are definitely factually true vs. the authors opinions we happen to like because we want to imagine some people are awful and others are saints. How doge isn't a plain dictionary definition of corruption? A private citizen given a power to destroy organisations that overlook that citizens businesses? It used to be that in such cases that private citizen then must give up their rights to their businesses (or some other way of avoiding conflict of interest).
    - phkahler 1y ago
      The one they did the most damage to was probably USAID. They didnt have anything to do with Elons businesses. Meanwhile the FAA was still blocking starship flights.
      - voltaireodactyl 1y ago
tremon 1y ago
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/trump-elon-musk-doge-weaken-regulators-1235284085/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/trum...
c420 1y ago
It's impossible to prove intent. With the exception of the NHTSA, the following agencies were gutted, each whose jurisdiction covered his business interests. In the case of the NHTSA, about half of the team that oversees autonomous vehicle safely was let go [1]. NHTSA, CFPB, DoT (FAA), DoE [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2025/02/21/musk-doge-tesla-autonomous-vehicles-nhtsa/?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2025/02/21/musk-doge...
nicce 1y ago
Starship ban was immediately lifted once Musk got in power. Look the dates. https://www.propublica.org/article/elon-musk-spacex-doge-faa-ast-regulation-spaceflight-trump https://www.propublica.org/article/elon-musk-spacex-doge-faa... https://www.cnbc.com/2025/02/28/faa-clears-spacex-for-starship-test-flight-after-explosion-in-january.html https://www.cnbc.com/2025/02/28/faa-clears-spacex-for-starsh...

1121redblackgo 1y ago

I think the self-dealing and getting rid of oversight was a very welcome bonus, but I think they genuinely thought they were the good guys coming to clean up government. Their methods were tragically ineffective as every serious person predicted. We have fiscal issues, clearly, and they thought they were doing good work, but it was an absolute failure and many of the issues still remain, and were exacerbated by what DOGE did. That’s what C- brains bring to a project.

Finnucane 1y ago
In other words, their heads were so far up their own asses they couldn't distinguish between self-dealing and public good.
lesuorac 1y ago
Well, the guys on the ground might be useful idiots [1]. But at the top there's no way they thought they were doing anything but dumping stuff into the trash. Which when the EPA / etc are the only organizations large enough to stand up to you is uh very good for you. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot
MengerSponge 1y ago
"You got your chocolate in my peanut butter!" Kakistocracy edition

nitwit005 1y ago

I suspect Musk didn't know what his own goals were. The whole thing seemed more about emotion than logic. I believe you're correct that he viewed the bureaucracy as a sort of foe, but that idea is somewhat paradoxical. You need employees to do anything. Fire everyone and Trump ends up nearly powerless. He sort of figured out the basics of how the government worked as he went along, but a little late at that point: https://www.reddit.com/r/mmt_economics/comments/1jdkz81/elon_must_stumbles_upon_mmt_without_realizing_it/ https://www.reddit.com/r/mmt_economics/comments/1jdkz81/elon...

Marazan 1y ago

This is a nice story but just doesn't hold up to the evidence of what was "cut". The reason people lie it as a story is because it makes everything have a logical sense to it. It brings reason to the disorder, and people hate chaos so cling to this Machivaleian mirage of a plan. An evil plan is better than chaos. Even if it is not true. However there _is_ an underlying reason to _some_ of the DOGE vandalism, and that is that Elon Musk's personal social media feed is a brain destroying fire hose of far right racism and conspiracy theories. One of the big boogey men of the far right racist conspiracy theories was USAID. So that is why USAID was shut down with the consequent loss of thousands upon thousands of lives. Because Musk believes bullshit he reads on the internet.