4 ms·

> 97% of users lose money on sports betting. This is the worst thing about sports betting. A close second is being shown the odds for every little thing durin

> 97% of users lose money on sports betting. This is the worst thing about sports betting. A close second is being shown the odds for every little thing during the live broadcasts. Apple TV is the worst offender. Their coverage of Major League Baseball was already bad, but they found a way to make it even worse by constantly showing the odds of this, that, or the other.

sidewndr46 1y ago
What I've always found odd about this is slot machines that are awful typically return 90+% to the players. In this case, we have the opposite.
- kgwgk 1y ago
  That 90+% has nothing to do with the 97% in the other comment. Betting platforms also return 90+% to players.
  - sidewndr46 1y ago
    Wouldn't that imply that 3% of players win huge on sports betting?
    - recursivecaveat 1y ago
      The 3% have either won a decent amount early and haven't averaged out yet, or they're a sharp who is carefully betting skillfully on winning bets. I don't think those people actually win too much since the platforms are always hunting to ban them. The missing money of 97% pretty much overwhelmingly ends up in the house's hands.
    - kgwgk 1y ago
      Even if sport bets or slot machines returned 99% that’s for one play. Play 50 times and the aggregate loss is 40%.
- ponector 1y ago
  Slot machines typically keep 3% and returns the rest to the player. They do many things to keep people play to empty their deposit. Bonuses, wins on every spin (but amount is usually less than stake). Use internal coins to hide actual value etc
  - goosejuice 1y ago
    It's the arcade games that will really get you. At least they're more fun.
- ivorbuk 1y ago
  A 90% RTP will typically (typically - lots of exceptions and caveats) be quite volatile - offering big wins but long losing streaks. Exactly the kinds of game behavior designed to extract long playing times and really peak the dopamine response. The casino will be accounting/forecasting a 5% take across stakes made as it's super complicated with jackpot contributions/payouts and stuff. These machines are there to be always accessible and to train the human in just the right way so as to get you addicted.
  - sidewndr46 1y ago
    I don't know what slots you play but the ones I've been at you can play the game at any speed you want. A single tap of the button places the bet and plays the animations, etc. A double tap does that and skips the animations, immediately showing your winnings. If that isn't enough there is usually an option to increase your bet by a multiplier or to make multiple plays on one "spin". The play speed is effectively up to that player. I used to work with a guy who had a long stint at IGT. He said the most popular game he ever "made" was to take his previously most popular game and just have one set of controls play 4 of the same game all at the same time on one screen.
    - ivorbuk 1y ago
      I don't play slots, but I did manage an online casino for 3 years. Auto-spins allow users to play without "interaction" but, at least for my players, the animations and chirps were all part of the "fun". All go towards the same thing - dopamine addiction as an activity. I think I just wanted to say that the perception of a 90% "success rate" v's all or nothing with sports betting felt like a troublesome comparison, for me at least. These games arent safer or fairer at all - they are both doing the same thing - in different doses to different audiences. Many of my slots players didn't consider what they did "gambling" at all.
HDThoreaun 1y ago
Most sports bettors arent trying to make money. A ticket to the game is $100+, is that money wasted too?
- stack_framer 1y ago
  > Most sports bettors arent trying to make money. This is totally disingenuous. Why else are gambling providers forced to include addiction recovery phone numbers with their ads? > A ticket to the game is $100+, is that money wasted too? No, and this is equally as insincere as your first statement. Gambling takes money without offering a fair return in goods or services.
  - HDThoreaun 1y ago
    > Why else are gambling providers forced to include addiction recovery phone numbers with their ads? Some people are sick and cant control themselves. > No, and this is equally as insincere as your first statement. Neither comments were insincere. > Gambling takes money without offering a fair return in goods or services. It provides entertainment, same thing tickets to the event provide. A lot cheaper than seeing the game in person too.
    - bdangubic 1y ago
      > Some people are sick and cant control themselves. If people being sick and not being to control themselves required an intervention phone number in general, we'd run out of 10-digit numbers faster than Elon lasted in the government :) > It provides entertainment, same thing tickets to the event provide. A lot cheaper than seeing the game in person too. This 100% is the reason most if not all of my friends put money on the games. Not sure why this is so hard for A LOT of people to understand, putting money on the games gives many people I know more of a rush than sky diving

sidewndr46 1y ago

What I've always found odd about this is slot machines that are awful typically return 90+% to the players. In this case, we have the opposite.

kgwgk 1y ago
That 90+% has nothing to do with the 97% in the other comment. Betting platforms also return 90+% to players.
- sidewndr46 1y ago
  Wouldn't that imply that 3% of players win huge on sports betting?
  - recursivecaveat 1y ago
    The 3% have either won a decent amount early and haven't averaged out yet, or they're a sharp who is carefully betting skillfully on winning bets. I don't think those people actually win too much since the platforms are always hunting to ban them. The missing money of 97% pretty much overwhelmingly ends up in the house's hands.
  - kgwgk 1y ago
    Even if sport bets or slot machines returned 99% that’s for one play. Play 50 times and the aggregate loss is 40%.
ponector 1y ago
Slot machines typically keep 3% and returns the rest to the player. They do many things to keep people play to empty their deposit. Bonuses, wins on every spin (but amount is usually less than stake). Use internal coins to hide actual value etc
- goosejuice 1y ago
  It's the arcade games that will really get you. At least they're more fun.
ivorbuk 1y ago
A 90% RTP will typically (typically - lots of exceptions and caveats) be quite volatile - offering big wins but long losing streaks. Exactly the kinds of game behavior designed to extract long playing times and really peak the dopamine response. The casino will be accounting/forecasting a 5% take across stakes made as it's super complicated with jackpot contributions/payouts and stuff. These machines are there to be always accessible and to train the human in just the right way so as to get you addicted.
- sidewndr46 1y ago
  I don't know what slots you play but the ones I've been at you can play the game at any speed you want. A single tap of the button places the bet and plays the animations, etc. A double tap does that and skips the animations, immediately showing your winnings. If that isn't enough there is usually an option to increase your bet by a multiplier or to make multiple plays on one "spin". The play speed is effectively up to that player. I used to work with a guy who had a long stint at IGT. He said the most popular game he ever "made" was to take his previously most popular game and just have one set of controls play 4 of the same game all at the same time on one screen.
  - ivorbuk 1y ago
    I don't play slots, but I did manage an online casino for 3 years. Auto-spins allow users to play without "interaction" but, at least for my players, the animations and chirps were all part of the "fun". All go towards the same thing - dopamine addiction as an activity. I think I just wanted to say that the perception of a 90% "success rate" v's all or nothing with sports betting felt like a troublesome comparison, for me at least. These games arent safer or fairer at all - they are both doing the same thing - in different doses to different audiences. Many of my slots players didn't consider what they did "gambling" at all.

HDThoreaun 1y ago

Most sports bettors arent trying to make money. A ticket to the game is $100+, is that money wasted too?

stack_framer 1y ago
> Most sports bettors arent trying to make money. This is totally disingenuous. Why else are gambling providers forced to include addiction recovery phone numbers with their ads? > A ticket to the game is $100+, is that money wasted too? No, and this is equally as insincere as your first statement. Gambling takes money without offering a fair return in goods or services.
- HDThoreaun 1y ago
  > Why else are gambling providers forced to include addiction recovery phone numbers with their ads? Some people are sick and cant control themselves. > No, and this is equally as insincere as your first statement. Neither comments were insincere. > Gambling takes money without offering a fair return in goods or services. It provides entertainment, same thing tickets to the event provide. A lot cheaper than seeing the game in person too.
  - bdangubic 1y ago
    > Some people are sick and cant control themselves. If people being sick and not being to control themselves required an intervention phone number in general, we'd run out of 10-digit numbers faster than Elon lasted in the government :) > It provides entertainment, same thing tickets to the event provide. A lot cheaper than seeing the game in person too. This 100% is the reason most if not all of my friends put money on the games. Not sure why this is so hard for A LOT of people to understand, putting money on the games gives many people I know more of a rush than sky diving