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It's common knowledge that these "fatwas" don't mean anything. In fact, these fatwas are complete bullshit. In fact, in regards to the Salman Rushdie case, Al A

It's common knowledge that these "fatwas" don't mean anything. In fact, these fatwas are complete bullshit. In fact, in regards to the Salman Rushdie case, Al Azhar (at the time), the highest and most prestigious Islamic institution, stated that Salman Rushdie was not to be touched and that it was against the Islamic principles to harm him.

Tichy 14y ago
So are you saying Salman Rushdie is safe and should come out into the public again? People have been killed before. There have been attacks on the Danish cartoonists, too (I know of one attack, not sure if there were more). Of course it is complete bullshit.
- einhverfr 14y ago
  You know, even if we agree that religion is a divine gift it is up to us to decide what we do with it. If I give you $20 and you go out and buy beer with it, and end up cheating on your wife, you don't come back to me and complain my $20 was evil and tell me I should have given you money in Euros instead. People are going to do what they will. The religion and the fattwas don't really matter. I have been in Indonesia when there were clerics issuing fattwas saying that killing Americans was ok. I just think it's tragic they get listened to.
  - Tichy 14y ago
    I can assure you it is even more tragic for the people who get killed. I am not sure what you are saying. Are you saying that if no Muslim fanatics were out to kill Salman Rushdie, then surely somebody else would be out to kill him (maybe somebody who had a beer beforehand), so the involvement of Islamic faith in the case is completely irrelevant?
    - einhverfr 14y ago
      I think religion plays second fiddle to every other factor out there. It's more often justification than motivation. The thing is that I can't think of any religion or non-religion that hasn't had extremely violent organizations use their ideology as a basis for this sort of thing. I was attending a Christian church in Jakarta once (no I am not really a Christian, and partly because of this), and the preacher recommended trying to convert Buddhist children as practice for converting Muslims. The thing is though that this wasn't well received by the Congregation even though it fit in perfectly well with their worldview. They chose to do something different with their religion and not be one minority victimizing another. People choose what to do with their religion. Blame people, not what books they read.
      - Tichy 14y ago
        My point was only there might be some real danger to the actors because of some sentiments in part of the Islamic "community". That doesn't imply that Islam is worse than other religions (personally I have no fondness for any of them, but that is another story). Although I wonder how it is structured - why can some Imams get by with issuing such statements? I don't think any priests of the "big" christian churches could do such a thing without being expelled. However, there seem to be a lot of crazy private "Christian" churches that are probably capable of anything. I am just not sure if their actions would then be described as "Christians doing stuff"? One similar thing that comes to mind is "Christians" calling for abortion doctors to be killed (I think there were also some successful killings or at least attempts at it).
        einhverfr 14y ago
        Although I wonder how it is structured - why can some Imams get by with issuing such statements? It's not very structured. Islam doesn't really have big religious organizations like the Catholic Church per se. And Salafism tends to be explicitly somewhat anarchist. Some crazy imams call for murder. Some of the more radical Muslims around here (Indonesia) tend to vandalize night clubs during Ramadan. That's mostly how far it goes. At least here, most Indonesians don't really want religious violence and Jakarta elections are probably bigger reasons for concern than is the movie. As for Christian equivalents, Ian Paisley comes to mind, but we aren't going to blame the fact that Christians believe their sect is right and others are wrong for the Northern Irish troubles are we? In case you are wondering, I am a heathen. I follow the older paths, and often lift a horn, preferably of mead, to Odhinn, Thorr, and Freyr....
nandemo 14y ago
A fatwa by Iran's religious leader doesn't mean anything? Several people involved in the publishing the Satanic Verses were attacked, and one was killed. If I were involved in the production of that movie (even unintentionally, like that actress), I'd be very careful now.

Tichy 14y ago

So are you saying Salman Rushdie is safe and should come out into the public again? People have been killed before. There have been attacks on the Danish cartoonists, too (I know of one attack, not sure if there were more). Of course it is complete bullshit.

einhverfr 14y ago
You know, even if we agree that religion is a divine gift it is up to us to decide what we do with it. If I give you $20 and you go out and buy beer with it, and end up cheating on your wife, you don't come back to me and complain my $20 was evil and tell me I should have given you money in Euros instead. People are going to do what they will. The religion and the fattwas don't really matter. I have been in Indonesia when there were clerics issuing fattwas saying that killing Americans was ok. I just think it's tragic they get listened to.
- Tichy 14y ago
  I can assure you it is even more tragic for the people who get killed. I am not sure what you are saying. Are you saying that if no Muslim fanatics were out to kill Salman Rushdie, then surely somebody else would be out to kill him (maybe somebody who had a beer beforehand), so the involvement of Islamic faith in the case is completely irrelevant?
  - einhverfr 14y ago
    I think religion plays second fiddle to every other factor out there. It's more often justification than motivation. The thing is that I can't think of any religion or non-religion that hasn't had extremely violent organizations use their ideology as a basis for this sort of thing. I was attending a Christian church in Jakarta once (no I am not really a Christian, and partly because of this), and the preacher recommended trying to convert Buddhist children as practice for converting Muslims. The thing is though that this wasn't well received by the Congregation even though it fit in perfectly well with their worldview. They chose to do something different with their religion and not be one minority victimizing another. People choose what to do with their religion. Blame people, not what books they read.
    - Tichy 14y ago
      My point was only there might be some real danger to the actors because of some sentiments in part of the Islamic "community". That doesn't imply that Islam is worse than other religions (personally I have no fondness for any of them, but that is another story). Although I wonder how it is structured - why can some Imams get by with issuing such statements? I don't think any priests of the "big" christian churches could do such a thing without being expelled. However, there seem to be a lot of crazy private "Christian" churches that are probably capable of anything. I am just not sure if their actions would then be described as "Christians doing stuff"? One similar thing that comes to mind is "Christians" calling for abortion doctors to be killed (I think there were also some successful killings or at least attempts at it).
      - einhverfr 14y ago
        Although I wonder how it is structured - why can some Imams get by with issuing such statements? It's not very structured. Islam doesn't really have big religious organizations like the Catholic Church per se. And Salafism tends to be explicitly somewhat anarchist. Some crazy imams call for murder. Some of the more radical Muslims around here (Indonesia) tend to vandalize night clubs during Ramadan. That's mostly how far it goes. At least here, most Indonesians don't really want religious violence and Jakarta elections are probably bigger reasons for concern than is the movie. As for Christian equivalents, Ian Paisley comes to mind, but we aren't going to blame the fact that Christians believe their sect is right and others are wrong for the Northern Irish troubles are we? In case you are wondering, I am a heathen. I follow the older paths, and often lift a horn, preferably of mead, to Odhinn, Thorr, and Freyr....

nandemo 14y ago

A fatwa by Iran's religious leader doesn't mean anything? Several people involved in the publishing the Satanic Verses were attacked, and one was killed. If I were involved in the production of that movie (even unintentionally, like that actress), I'd be very careful now.