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700+ hp electric Honda S2000 built by high school senior
- chrsstrm 14y agoWhat's the weight of the 104 batteries and the gain/loss after removing the gas engine and replacing with electric?
- 001sky 14y agos2000 is a rwd car and likes to spin. this is not a trivial question.
- 001sky 14y ago"The battery pack will consist of 416 cells with 4 cells in parallel and 104 in series...The batteries will be A123 20Ah prismatic cells. " Approx 460 pounds just for the cells.[1] ___________ Notes: http://www.a123systems.com/prismatic-cell-amp20.htm http://www.a123systems.com/prismatic-cell-amp20.htm ~500g each (1.1 lb) based on a quick google [tbc]
- ricksta 14y agoA123 cells are about 180wh per kg, hes using 20ah 4 at 104 cells in series. so thats about 104 3.7 = 396 volts at 120ah. multiply that together you get 47kwh of energy. These batteries would be around 500lb. These battery pricing must've came down a lot over the past couple years because this would've cost something like $40k couple years ago, but a quick google for pricing looks like the battery pack he is using can be bought for around $13k pricing source: http://www.a123rc.com/goods-468-Excitingly+Powerful+A+123+20ah+PRISMATIC+CELLS.html http://www.a123rc.com/goods-468-Excitingly+Powerful+A+123+20...
- chrsstrm 14y ago500lbs in batteries and a quick search shows each of his motors is 156lbs. Since the gas motor he took out weighed 326lbs, he's got a net gain of ≈ 480lbs. That's a lot to overcome.
- harold 14y agoThese cars offer excellent balance, handling and braking from the factory. I'm guessing all of those may suffer after gaining that much weight. I had an '05 S2000. I wish I still had it, wonderful car.
- networkburger 14y agoAgreed. Best car I ever had (and totalled).
- kerryfalk 14y agoThat's a 16% increase in weight and a 312% increase in power. I used to be a frequent poster on s2ki (autocross an AP1), the weight isn't that much of a hinderance when you increase power that much. Braking and turning will suffer.
- nicholassmith 14y agoAdd on (or take off I guess) the exhaust system, gearbox and fuel tank and he's probably shaved a bit more off as well.
- Tossrock 14y agoThere's much more information in the linked forum thread: http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/975497-wait-that-isnt-an-f20c/ http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/975497-wait-that-isnt-an-f20... For example, he also built a keyless entry system with an arduino board and an iPod. This kid is pretty amazing.
- andyjsong 14y agoDoes anyone else not see any of the pics submitted by the OP in the forum?
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- ChuckMcM 14y agoInteresting that he bought the batteries "in china" (his scare quotes), I'm wondering if they are off market copies? Having built high current battle bot battery boxes I get really really twitchy around "good deal" battery packs. That said, its amazing how 'off the shelf' this tech is becoming. Hats off to this guy for taking the challenge.
- BryanB55 14y agoJust read through the whole thread on the s2000 forum, I'm an auto enthusiast but I was more interested in how this kid knows how to do all of this more than I am interested in the car. 16 years old and you know how to retrofit an s2000 with a custom electric motor and build CAD models of it!?
- StavrosK 14y agoHe's 16 years and 300 months old.
- hyperbovine 14y agoProps to the kid for being such a whiz, but DAE shudder at the thought of a 17-year old getting behind the wheel of this thing? My mom's minivan had about 150hp and I still managed to do incredibly stupid shit with it. All the while believing I was an above-average driver...
- jasonquinn 14y agoI've met anyone who doesn't describe them self as a above-average driver
- djt 14y agoOnly a 15% loss of power to the wheels is very low. Just the drivetrain loss on muscle cars is around 30% approximately.
- SunboX 14y agoLet´s see if he get´s this thing working. Building two e-motors and some batteries inside a car is a very "easy" task compared to building the "control unit" and cooling the batteries down. This two motors will draw a lot current, the electrics to control this huge amount of current will be a hard task to figure out. Another one is the battery cooling. 700hp will take a lot energy, the batteries will get very hot. If you ever had played a 3D game on your phone, you know what I mean. ;o) If he get´s this thing working, it would be really great! I can´t wait to call a electric car my own. :D If you interested in such kind of work, you should search on Youtube for "electric VW Golf II", "electric VW Polo" or "electric VW Käfer". ;o)
- cantbecool 14y agoThere's no way he's getting 700+ HP from those two warp 9 motors. It says each motor is capable of outputting 34HP continuously: http://electriccarinternational.com/media/img-prod/WarP_9_Sales_Sheet-1.gif http://electriccarinternational.com/media/img-prod/WarP_9_Sa...
- mercuryrising 14y agoNope, but it will drive a car, just not as fast as I'm sure he would like. When he realizes his error, he'll be able to reason much better about electrical and mechanical engineering than many of his peers in school (if he decides to go to college) due to having actual experiences of failing in the real world (rather than just on paper). Good for him.
- SunboX 14y agoI also don´t see any kind of transmission. I don´t think it´s a good idea to mount the motors directly to the drive shaft. Edit: http://electriccarinternational.com/media/img-prod/WarP_9_Sales_Sheet-1.gif http://electriccarinternational.com/media/img-prod/WarP_9_Sa... mentions 5.800 RPM (min. 2.000, max. 5.800 RPM). Thats too much to drive the wheels directly. Does anyone see a gearbox in the forum?
- mbell 14y agoIt still has a rear differential, stock ratio is 4.10.
- Zak 14y agoThat appears to be at 144 volts and 500 amps. His stated plan is to deliver 343 volts and 2000 amps. Assuming this doesn't melt the motors, he'll get more power than the datasheet claims. That said, his calculations might be a bit off. 144Vx500A = 72KW or 96.5HP. He's assuming 85% efficiency, which would give 82HP, not 34. Furthermore, if the motor were to deliver 100 ft-lbs of torque as stated at its stated maximum speed of 5800 RPM, that would be 110HP. This would obviously require more than 72KW of electrical power input. Taking the ratio between the motor's stated performance and the electrical numbers given on the datasheet, and multiplying by the electrical power he intends to supply, we get 34/96x920 = 326HP. This too seems a bit off, as 35% efficiency is quite low for an electric motor. My guess is that the motor is actually incapable of producing its full torque at higher RPM. My guess is he will actually produce something resembling the amount of power he's hoping for, but only briefly, after which they will deliver no power at all, ever.
- sukuriant 14y agoI'll be interested to see how he's going to deal with the torque problem that Tesla had to solve.
- s_henry_paulson 14y agoI'm interested in how he's dealing with even simpler problems like charge time and battery life.
- SunboX 14y agoMe, too. I don´t see any battery cooling system. This will be a problem, if he´s getting it to work. With these big motors, the batteries will get very hot ... and maybe, burn down ... or at least don´t work very long.
- pja 14y agoHe's using a COTS charging module: you'll see it if you look through the linked thread.
- andyjsong 14y agoI just wondering where he's getting the cash to convert his s2k into an electric drag racer. I wish I had that kind of access to car and batteries as a kid.
- nicholassmith 14y agoIt says he runs his own CAD business, and I imagine he's from a fairly cash-rich background.
- patrickk 14y agoHe also mentioned he's getting some sponsorship in the forum.
- illuminate 14y agoI hope there are big "MOM" and "DAD" stickers on the car.
- atlbeer 14y agoHe was 16 when he started the build and was using an AMG Mercedes ($100k car) to pick up parts. I'm going to assume he comes from a fairly well off family.
- Zak 14y agoIntroductory blog post here: http://electrichonda.blogspot.de/2011/05/introduction.html http://electrichonda.blogspot.de/2011/05/introduction.html Juan's project is impressive, no doubt, but his analysis of the superiority of electric cars is suspect. He writes: The average car uses about 20% of the potential energy of the fuel in useful motion while wasting the other energy as heat, noise and pollution. Electric cars use upwards of 80% of their 'fuel', a percentage which can be increased relatively easily as most of its losses are electrical. The biggest problem is that he's treating the electricity in the battery as raw fuel. He does acknowledge that most electricity in the US comes from sources like coal, but ignores various losses between that coal and his car flying down the road. Let's add those in. The best we can do from a coal plant is about 49%[0]. It may be possible to use the waste heat from such a plant for other purposes; I am not including such uses in this calculation as they do not have anything to do with powering the electric car. The US power grid is around 93-94% efficient[1]. Electric cars don't get all the power from the grid in to the batteries as chemical energy. Charging batteries generates quite a bit of heat. The EPA estimates that the best electric cars are 62% efficient at converting power from the grid in to kinetic energy[2]. So we have 49% * 94% * 62% = 28.6% efficient at converting the chemical energy in coal to propelling the car. This is not a dramatic improvement over internal combustion. There is, of course the advantage of using power sources other than coal and oil, but the claimed efficiency is not quite what electric vehicle proponents would like it to be. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aved%C3%B8re_Power_Station http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aved%C3%B8re_Power_Station [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_power_transmission#Losses http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_power_transmission#Los... [2] http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/evtech.shtml http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/evtech.shtml
- JoeAltmaier 14y ago28% is absolutely a dramatic improvement, over 20%. It translates to a dramatic decrease in coal consumed to drive the vehicle - close to a third less.
- Zak 14y agoThe EPA says the best internal combustion cars are 26%: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/atv.shtml http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/atv.shtml
- mtr 14y agoHis project inspired me to write a blog post: http://blog.octanenation.com/news/high-school-senior-builds-700-hp-electric-honda-s2000/ http://blog.octanenation.com/news/high-school-senior-builds-... It's a complex undertaking and he will definitely learn more than his classes in high school!