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"Very few detractors in the west have any issues with highly qualified immigrants occupying scientific or research roles." Laughable, these 'few' reside in the

by lkey 1y ago

"Very few detractors in the west have any issues with highly qualified immigrants occupying scientific or research roles." Laughable, these 'few' reside in the highest seats of power and exist among the 'advisors' to the cabinet. "It's a radical kind of dismissiveness" People keep telling me I'm wrong in the wrong way, if they were nicer I'd consider their opinions. This is an irrational position to stake out, it should go without saying. "The broad western detraction against immigration at the moment is targeted at specific waves of mass immigration with specific compositions that have specific effects on the places those immigrants have landed." This is such a laborious way to say "poor, brown or both". Do you get tired of dancing around like this? "People are primarily concerned about the ability of state, social and corporate institutions" If you were actually "concerned", you'd advocate for punishing institutions that use cheap (or 'free' if you steal their passport) immigrant labor, rather than targeting those that arrived to fill those positions. Do you have an understanding of why this never happens? It goes without saying that much of the 'specific immigrant labor' you despise is used to fill the welfare obligations related to care-taking that you are also deeply concerned about. "dismissive to these concerns" I was assured that 'tone policing' was the domain of the 'woke', yet here it is a second time in the same comment. "uncontroversial and obvious." You might want to speak to your fellow travelers about which are 'good' immigrants and which are 'bad'. It suffices to say that if they agree in general, but disagree about which group is good, then it is not actually 'uncontroversial'.

mjburgess 1y ago
I personally don't care about immigration. I have yet ever to be negatively affected by it, and have tended to find immigrants more pleasant than my own citizens. I'm more worried about our aging, obsese, immobile populations who arent breeding, and need 3-to-1 worker ratios to support, that we cannot provide. I am, personally, relatively open borders -- for at least that reason. I am more motivated by welfare demands and geopolitics, both of which benefit from larger active populations in our borders. However, what I want doesn't really matter. It's a democracy, and half of a country will not be ignored. You either listen and find some way to give them what they want in the least objectionable way; or they will take what they want, and take revenge on you for your obstinacy. They will do to you what you insist on doing to them: not listening to you at all as they enact the most extreme form of policies which they agree with. You speak as if your views express those of a powerful majority who will impose them on your detractors. This a dangerous power fantasy. The castle has been ransacked, the draw bridge is down, and you've no army left. You either draw up terms of surrender, or they will be drawn up for you.
- AnimalMuppet 1y ago
  > The castle has been ransacked, the draw bridge is down, and you've no army left. Well, no, not that either. You're making the same mistake from the other side. The side you say has "no army left" also is half the country. And that half of a country will not be ignored either. Both sides demand to be listened to, but neither side is willing to compromise or to admit defeat, even temporarily. So I expect that power will continue to swap back and forth, that when in power both sides will do their best to implement their plans, and when they are out of power they will suffer the other side's vengeance for their obstinacy. I don't see it improving soon. I suspect we'll see at least another two election cycles of this viciousness.
  - mjburgess 1y ago
    Maybe. Certainly if detractors go to excess then they'll breed resentment from the supporters, and round and round. At the moment though, i think there's lots of people speaking as if it were 2022 and all of that ammunition has now been expended and the stores are bare

by lkey 1y ago

mjburgess 1y ago

I personally don't care about immigration. I have yet ever to be negatively affected by it, and have tended to find immigrants more pleasant than my own citizens. I'm more worried about our aging, obsese, immobile populations who arent breeding, and need 3-to-1 worker ratios to support, that we cannot provide. I am, personally, relatively open borders -- for at least that reason. I am more motivated by welfare demands and geopolitics, both of which benefit from larger active populations in our borders. However, what I want doesn't really matter. It's a democracy, and half of a country will not be ignored. You either listen and find some way to give them what they want in the least objectionable way; or they will take what they want, and take revenge on you for your obstinacy. They will do to you what you insist on doing to them: not listening to you at all as they enact the most extreme form of policies which they agree with. You speak as if your views express those of a powerful majority who will impose them on your detractors. This a dangerous power fantasy. The castle has been ransacked, the draw bridge is down, and you've no army left. You either draw up terms of surrender, or they will be drawn up for you.

AnimalMuppet 1y ago
> The castle has been ransacked, the draw bridge is down, and you've no army left. Well, no, not that either. You're making the same mistake from the other side. The side you say has "no army left" also is half the country. And that half of a country will not be ignored either. Both sides demand to be listened to, but neither side is willing to compromise or to admit defeat, even temporarily. So I expect that power will continue to swap back and forth, that when in power both sides will do their best to implement their plans, and when they are out of power they will suffer the other side's vengeance for their obstinacy. I don't see it improving soon. I suspect we'll see at least another two election cycles of this viciousness.
- mjburgess 1y ago
  Maybe. Certainly if detractors go to excess then they'll breed resentment from the supporters, and round and round. At the moment though, i think there's lots of people speaking as if it were 2022 and all of that ammunition has now been expended and the stores are bare