4 ms·

> you can't run your bank's app I can log in to my bank account using my desktop PC > government eID apps I can sign into government websites using my deskto

> you can't run your bank's app I can log in to my bank account using my desktop PC > government eID apps I can sign into government websites using my desktop PC and its smart card reader and my government-issued eID smartcard. No smartphone needed.

tarsinge 1y ago
For now, there is an increasing number of banks and government websites that are broken if you are not using Chrome or full on requires it.
- agf 1y ago
  This has been true since it stopped being true for Internet Explorer. I've not noticed any significant change over time. I have been using Firefox for over 20 years.
okanat 1y ago
Not in EU. Many banks mandate you either have an iPhone or Google approved Android as 2FA. Those fucking idiots have killed their own competition options.
- Fargren 1y ago
  Yes in EU. I'm in Spain and I sign up to several banks as well as government sites in my desktop PC.
- yupyupyups 1y ago
  My bank (in the EU) has a fully functional website where I can identify myself using an offline 2fa device.
- synecdoche 1y ago
  Likewise in Sweden. No bank that I’m aware of is limited to require mobile only login.
  - nextos 1y ago
    Some neobanks are limited to mobile-only. The OP's statement was too general. It's also true that some regular banks are phasing out 2FA via SMS, which is outdated per EU regulations, and may not easily offer alternatives to their app for 2FA codes.
- Retric 1y ago
  That’s what competition is for. You can still swap banks over such nonsense.
- xxs 1y ago
  Of course in the EU - pretty much all Baltic and Nordic countries support id cards connected via usb
  - GardenLetter27 1y ago
    Nope, Sweden requires Mobile BankID on iOS or Android for example.
    - Samtidsfobiker 1y ago
      BankID has a desktop version, and no site which requires Mobile BankID would not allow you to also use the desktop version.
      - GardenLetter27 1y ago
        But it doesn't support Linux.
        Jensson 1y ago
        It used to, it could quickly get back support if there was a reason to.
    - osks 1y ago
      Several of the biggest banks have alternative methods that don’t require mobile BankID.
  - okanat 1y ago
    Well not in Germany. Some banks accept their branded authenticators, some of them don't. ING in Germany forces you to either have a single Google approved smartphone or a single authenticator, not both. DKB requires a paid Girocard to use the authenticator or a Google approved smartphone. N26 requires a single phone but they are a bit lenient. However they have way too many incidents reported where they closed people's accounts without a reason. The traditional banks have high fees. One pays upwards 10 - 15 Euros a month for Sparkasse or Commerzbank for a simple checking account. Using Sparkasse means you cannot deposit money outside county (yes county and country) borders. Many traditional banks have high fees for withdrawing outside the network. So one is forced to choose between modern banks with better online experience that's tied to Google and Apple or a traditional bank with oftentimes awful online experience and high fees.
- johnisgood 1y ago
  Which banks? Which country? How do they check and enforce iPhone / Google wrt. 2FA? Are you referring to TOTP as 2FA?
  - pimterry 1y ago
    All of them now require some kind of 2FA, everywhere. This is due to a legal requirement on all EEA payment providers that they require 2FA for almost everything since 2020, including accessing your account on their website: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_customer_authentication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_customer_authentication TOTP codes would be allowed by the regulation, as would biometric approaches or separate physical tokens, but in practice every bank I've used in recent years (quite a few, mostly Spanish but also in Belgium & Switzerland) require that you accept a confirmation prompt or similar in their app.
    - logifail 1y ago
      It feels like "gold-plating" of regulations is and always has been a significant problem in the EU. Regulations are written (at EU level) to allow X, Y and Z; somehow by the time it's implemented at member state level it miraculously only allows only X or Y, and once it gets to actual service providers (who've presumably been advised by their in-house lawyers that 'Y is bad') we end up with a choice of X or nothing. Then if you ask anyone at EU level what's going on, they point to what the regulation says, and everyone shrugs.
  - okanat 1y ago
    All banks are required to have "safe" 2FA in the EU by EU regulation. SMS is banned. Most banks in Germany, Austria and Portugal default to Play Store or App Store apps with OS integrity checks. It seems like the Nordic countries have it a bit better with the ID reader apps. There are sometimes alternatives and some of them require paid subscription. The apps they require are proprietary. They are not generic TOTP generators. Some of them require biometric approval. Some just logging in and approving a notification. I have seen some generate a form of non-standard TOTP. Otherwise I wouldn't complain about being locked into Google or Apple ecosystems. They are Play Store or App Store apps that require attestation from the libraries / systems provided Google or Apple like SafetyNet or Play Integrity. Some require strong hardware attestation. If the OS is modified, those checks do not pass. You cannot use any FOSS system without crazy hacks. If the phone is stolen, you have to go through manual reonboarding. It sucks when you're out of the country.
- BasilofBasiley 1y ago
  While everyone took the opportunity to reply to you with "Not in my bank/country/to-my-awareness" This is what's happening in Portugal: https://old.reddit.com/r/portugal/comments/1msc886/obriga%C3%A7%C3%A3o_de_instalar_app_no_telem%C3%B3vel_a_partir/ https://old.reddit.com/r/portugal/comments/1msc886/obriga%C3... Effectively, if the client doesn't download the App, they will never be able to log into the homebanking website again. The bank enforced this and now if you login normally it will redirect to a page where you can download the app or use up one of three remaining chances to login. I am down to two. From now on, I'm only able to use ATM's or go to an actual teller to make payments and such. The app requires that I have a Google account or an Apple account and I think that's just messed up, specially for a Portuguese bank. The app on the google store is pt.novobanco.nbsmarter if anyone is curious. It has interesting permissions as well. Edit: This is the landing page (one login left, oh dear...) https://files.catbox.moe/x117iy.png https://files.catbox.moe/x117iy.png rsync, here you go: https://reports.exodus-privacy.eu.org/en/reports/652314/ https://reports.exodus-privacy.eu.org/en/reports/652314/
  - rsync 1y ago
    Can you expand on: "It has interesting permissions as well ..." ? I assume a banking app needs (temporary) permission to use the camera for check photos or things of that nature ... and possibly (temporary) use of location data. I would be alarmed if it requested microphone or access to either contacts or photo storage ...
    - BasilofBasiley 1y ago
      I updated the above comment. Cheers.
  - eikenberry 1y ago
    You say "The bank"... does this mean Portugal only has one bank? If not, wouldn't this be a good reason so change banks? Maybe to a credit union (bank co-op) if they have those in Portugal as the members generally have much more of a say.
    - 1y ago
- janice1999 1y ago
  >Not in EU. Please stop spreading disinformation. I live in the EU and my EU bank supports desktop browsers + Card reader matching everything the mobile app can do.
- wkat4242 1y ago
  Spain provides smart cards to their citizens. Mobile is not needed.
  - dzhiurgis 1y ago
    My experience of using them is horrible.
- 1over137 1y ago
  >Not in EU That's especially crazy. With Trump's/USA's belligerence, why on earth would EU companies/banks/governments want to require that you have an Apple/Google account, it makes them totally dependant on foreigners!
  - hulitu 1y ago
    Because "deal". Why implement an aithentication when you can use the Google/Apple/Microsoft one ? It's free. You only have to make a "deal" and give them all your data (which they have anyway, because they run the keylogger on your device).
- Semaphor 1y ago
  Many or even most banks in Germany don’t require google verification, many even work on rooted phones.
3836293648 1y ago
Well in Sweden we can't. You already need bankid on your phone to log in on your PC. There used to be a bankid desktop app and dedicated hardware, but that's gone from many sites now
- osks 1y ago
  There are banks/companies that require BankID, but there are several big banks that have alternative methods. It seems that only Swedbank of the big four require mobile BankID for sign in.
- kassner 1y ago
  That I know of: Danske Bank, ICA Banken and Nordea give you some “calculator”-style device to generate codes and login. Danske calls it “kodbox”, Nordea “ID-dosa”. I got mine at account opening, and you need it to issue BankID for the first time.
  - 3836293648 1y ago
    That's the dedicated hardware. It's still supported in many places, just not everywhere any more. You will often find mobilt bankid only now.

tarsinge 1y ago

For now, there is an increasing number of banks and government websites that are broken if you are not using Chrome or full on requires it.

agf 1y ago
This has been true since it stopped being true for Internet Explorer. I've not noticed any significant change over time. I have been using Firefox for over 20 years.

okanat 1y ago

Not in EU. Many banks mandate you either have an iPhone or Google approved Android as 2FA. Those fucking idiots have killed their own competition options.

Fargren 1y ago
Yes in EU. I'm in Spain and I sign up to several banks as well as government sites in my desktop PC.
yupyupyups 1y ago
My bank (in the EU) has a fully functional website where I can identify myself using an offline 2fa device.
synecdoche 1y ago
Likewise in Sweden. No bank that I’m aware of is limited to require mobile only login.
- nextos 1y ago
  Some neobanks are limited to mobile-only. The OP's statement was too general. It's also true that some regular banks are phasing out 2FA via SMS, which is outdated per EU regulations, and may not easily offer alternatives to their app for 2FA codes.
Retric 1y ago
That’s what competition is for. You can still swap banks over such nonsense.
xxs 1y ago
Of course in the EU - pretty much all Baltic and Nordic countries support id cards connected via usb
- GardenLetter27 1y ago
  Nope, Sweden requires Mobile BankID on iOS or Android for example.
  - Samtidsfobiker 1y ago
    BankID has a desktop version, and no site which requires Mobile BankID would not allow you to also use the desktop version.
    - GardenLetter27 1y ago
      But it doesn't support Linux.
      - Jensson 1y ago
        It used to, it could quickly get back support if there was a reason to.
  - osks 1y ago
    Several of the biggest banks have alternative methods that don’t require mobile BankID.
- okanat 1y ago
  Well not in Germany. Some banks accept their branded authenticators, some of them don't. ING in Germany forces you to either have a single Google approved smartphone or a single authenticator, not both. DKB requires a paid Girocard to use the authenticator or a Google approved smartphone. N26 requires a single phone but they are a bit lenient. However they have way too many incidents reported where they closed people's accounts without a reason. The traditional banks have high fees. One pays upwards 10 - 15 Euros a month for Sparkasse or Commerzbank for a simple checking account. Using Sparkasse means you cannot deposit money outside county (yes county and country) borders. Many traditional banks have high fees for withdrawing outside the network. So one is forced to choose between modern banks with better online experience that's tied to Google and Apple or a traditional bank with oftentimes awful online experience and high fees.
johnisgood 1y ago
Which banks? Which country? How do they check and enforce iPhone / Google wrt. 2FA? Are you referring to TOTP as 2FA?
- pimterry 1y ago
  All of them now require some kind of 2FA, everywhere. This is due to a legal requirement on all EEA payment providers that they require 2FA for almost everything since 2020, including accessing your account on their website: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_customer_authentication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_customer_authentication TOTP codes would be allowed by the regulation, as would biometric approaches or separate physical tokens, but in practice every bank I've used in recent years (quite a few, mostly Spanish but also in Belgium & Switzerland) require that you accept a confirmation prompt or similar in their app.
  - logifail 1y ago
    It feels like "gold-plating" of regulations is and always has been a significant problem in the EU. Regulations are written (at EU level) to allow X, Y and Z; somehow by the time it's implemented at member state level it miraculously only allows only X or Y, and once it gets to actual service providers (who've presumably been advised by their in-house lawyers that 'Y is bad') we end up with a choice of X or nothing. Then if you ask anyone at EU level what's going on, they point to what the regulation says, and everyone shrugs.
- okanat 1y ago
  All banks are required to have "safe" 2FA in the EU by EU regulation. SMS is banned. Most banks in Germany, Austria and Portugal default to Play Store or App Store apps with OS integrity checks. It seems like the Nordic countries have it a bit better with the ID reader apps. There are sometimes alternatives and some of them require paid subscription. The apps they require are proprietary. They are not generic TOTP generators. Some of them require biometric approval. Some just logging in and approving a notification. I have seen some generate a form of non-standard TOTP. Otherwise I wouldn't complain about being locked into Google or Apple ecosystems. They are Play Store or App Store apps that require attestation from the libraries / systems provided Google or Apple like SafetyNet or Play Integrity. Some require strong hardware attestation. If the OS is modified, those checks do not pass. You cannot use any FOSS system without crazy hacks. If the phone is stolen, you have to go through manual reonboarding. It sucks when you're out of the country.
BasilofBasiley 1y ago
While everyone took the opportunity to reply to you with "Not in my bank/country/to-my-awareness" This is what's happening in Portugal: https://old.reddit.com/r/portugal/comments/1msc886/obriga%C3%A7%C3%A3o_de_instalar_app_no_telem%C3%B3vel_a_partir/ https://old.reddit.com/r/portugal/comments/1msc886/obriga%C3... Effectively, if the client doesn't download the App, they will never be able to log into the homebanking website again. The bank enforced this and now if you login normally it will redirect to a page where you can download the app or use up one of three remaining chances to login. I am down to two. From now on, I'm only able to use ATM's or go to an actual teller to make payments and such. The app requires that I have a Google account or an Apple account and I think that's just messed up, specially for a Portuguese bank. The app on the google store is pt.novobanco.nbsmarter if anyone is curious. It has interesting permissions as well. Edit: This is the landing page (one login left, oh dear...) https://files.catbox.moe/x117iy.png https://files.catbox.moe/x117iy.png rsync, here you go: https://reports.exodus-privacy.eu.org/en/reports/652314/ https://reports.exodus-privacy.eu.org/en/reports/652314/
- rsync 1y ago
  Can you expand on: "It has interesting permissions as well ..." ? I assume a banking app needs (temporary) permission to use the camera for check photos or things of that nature ... and possibly (temporary) use of location data. I would be alarmed if it requested microphone or access to either contacts or photo storage ...
  - BasilofBasiley 1y ago
    I updated the above comment. Cheers.
- eikenberry 1y ago
  You say "The bank"... does this mean Portugal only has one bank? If not, wouldn't this be a good reason so change banks? Maybe to a credit union (bank co-op) if they have those in Portugal as the members generally have much more of a say.
  - 1y ago
janice1999 1y ago
>Not in EU. Please stop spreading disinformation. I live in the EU and my EU bank supports desktop browsers + Card reader matching everything the mobile app can do.
wkat4242 1y ago
Spain provides smart cards to their citizens. Mobile is not needed.
- dzhiurgis 1y ago
  My experience of using them is horrible.
1over137 1y ago
>Not in EU That's especially crazy. With Trump's/USA's belligerence, why on earth would EU companies/banks/governments want to require that you have an Apple/Google account, it makes them totally dependant on foreigners!
- hulitu 1y ago
  Because "deal". Why implement an aithentication when you can use the Google/Apple/Microsoft one ? It's free. You only have to make a "deal" and give them all your data (which they have anyway, because they run the keylogger on your device).
Semaphor 1y ago
Many or even most banks in Germany don’t require google verification, many even work on rooted phones.

3836293648 1y ago

Well in Sweden we can't. You already need bankid on your phone to log in on your PC. There used to be a bankid desktop app and dedicated hardware, but that's gone from many sites now

osks 1y ago
There are banks/companies that require BankID, but there are several big banks that have alternative methods. It seems that only Swedbank of the big four require mobile BankID for sign in.
kassner 1y ago
That I know of: Danske Bank, ICA Banken and Nordea give you some “calculator”-style device to generate codes and login. Danske calls it “kodbox”, Nordea “ID-dosa”. I got mine at account opening, and you need it to issue BankID for the first time.
- 3836293648 1y ago
  That's the dedicated hardware. It's still supported in many places, just not everywhere any more. You will often find mobilt bankid only now.