8 ms·
and here is the opposite effect, the new windows 8 logo: http://i50.tinypic.com/15oidfb.jpg http://i50.tinypic.com/15oidfb.jpg A clean, simple, elegant logo,
by gfodor 14y ago
and here is the opposite effect, the new windows 8 logo:
http://i50.tinypic.com/15oidfb.jpg http://i50.tinypic.com/15oidfb.jpg
A clean, simple, elegant logo, completely ruined by the honking TM and (R) injected by the lawyers. The bizarre presence of two separate legalese-related sigils on a single logo makes it impossible to miss. Also makes it clear who is running the place.
- 001sky 14y agoHow does apple get away without this? Curious if anyone knows
- pixie_ 14y agofear
- pixie_ 14y agowow downvotes. let me elaborate. if you use apple's IP, they will sue you out of existence.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- kingkawn 14y agohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer maybe they couldn't for a while?
- Steko 14y agohttp://www.logodesignlove.com/trademark-symbols http://www.logodesignlove.com/trademark-symbols
- anigbrowl 14y agoVery small type at the bottom of their ads. Despite what people think, you are not required to stick a trademark sigil right next to your mark. I have been having this argument with people for nearly 20 years, and don't blame the lawyers so much as the managers who won't take the time and effort to actually think about what the lawyers are telling them.
- randomfool 14y agoI've also heard (from MS lawyers) that it's only important to have this at the first point of display of the logo, such as installer or splash screen. Does not have to occur everywhere.
- 001sky 14y agoI'm thinking even the apple logo (with bite) on the back of a macbook, etc...
- nchlswu 14y agoThen that example can be applied to the Surface tablet* and any manufacturer's laptop -- no (TM) there. But even then, what makes a hardware product different from an advertisement or a software? As far as I know, there's no legal text on the bottom of these hardware products either. *I don't think there's a (tm) symbol there
- nroach 14y agoCheck out Ross-Whitney Corp. v. Smith Kline & French Labs, 207 F.2d 190, 99 USPQ 1 (1953). Might provide some support for your position if you have to argue with the lawyers ;)
- acmiller 14y agoI'm not too keen on trademark law, but as I understand it the point to including an (R) symbol is to provide notice that a mark is registered with the USPTO. Why does notice matter? It doesn't excuse infringement if the (R) is missing. However, if you infringe on a trademark, damages are due from the date that you know or should know that the mark is registered. So if you register a mark for your obscure brand of shoe trees or whatever, it makes sense to include the (R) wherever you can. Now who doesn't have this problem? Apple, for one. Unless you've been living under a tree for 35 years, you know that if you sell computers with an Apple logo on the front, you're infringing on a famous registered trademark. Yahoo also doesn't have this problem, so who knows why they felt they needed to include the (R). During the original dotcom bubble, some companies were notably overzealous about IP, so they may have gone all in at the time only to revisit it now.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- moe 14y agoI actually like the visual appearance of these symbols in some logos, including this one. I believe in this case I like it because the ™ slightly reinforces the 3D effect, and because it's a rather bad logo to begin with. I.e. almost any change is an improvement and the small pictograms give it a bit of an "organic" touch.
- makecheck 14y agoIt's always been that way. Remember the Windows 95 and Windows NT startup screens? Take this for instance: http://www.guidebookgallery.org/screenshots/winnt40 http://www.guidebookgallery.org/screenshots/winnt40 In particular: http://www.guidebookgallery.org/pics/gui/startupshutdown/splash/winnt40.png http://www.guidebookgallery.org/pics/gui/startupshutdown/spl... It wasn't uncommon for Microsoft to have their name mentioned 4 or 5 times on a single screen, alongside copyright symbols, trademarks, and other crap.
- zalew 14y agothose screenshots were enhanced with adobe(r) photoshop(tm) software.
- sharkweek 14y agoyou never "photoshop" a picture, right? -- I have to imagine there is an endless struggle between marketing and legal on these types of things
- Trezoid 14y agoIIRC there was actually some talk of Adobe legal stepping in to stop the use of the term "photoshop" for editing an image. For obvious reason it went no-where.
- nikcub 14y agoMicrosoft really don't need it. It would be very hard to argue in court that you released a product called 'Windows' without knowing that a similar product from Microsoft already exists, or that you didn't know that your Windows logo is the same or similar to what Microsoft produce. Microsoft really should just have a subscript in the EULA or splash screen with "Microsoft® and the Windows Logo ™ are registered trademarks of Microsoft Inc. 1 Redmond Way, Redmond, WA, etc." That is what startups should do as well. The best way to estalish your intellectual property is through soft enforcement, just sending out polite letters whenever somebody uses your marks in their own products. If they don't change, then pursuit further, but this works well with Facebook and in a lot of other cases.
- zizee 14y agoMicrosoft is probably aggressive about the windows trademark as it is a very generic trademark and could easily be revoked if not defended vigorously. Even in relation to operating systems it is generic - think "window manager". Because of this it is very easy to argue that Microsoft should not have been allowed to trademark such a generic term.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- reitzensteinm 14y agoA large part of it is probably a CYA attitude by the legal department, too. If they're too conservative, and legal notices are featured prominently without reason, the price is paid by Microsoft as a whole having mediocre branding, and the legal team is not accountable. But if the trademarks slip away because they've been too liberal, heads will roll. Thus the incentives are pretty clearly stacked up for the lawyers to insist on protection that minimizes risk to a degree that hurts Microsoft as a whole.
- zizee 14y agoMicrosoft is probably aggressive about the windows trademark as it is a very generic trademark and could easily be revoked if not defended vigorously. Even in relation to operating systems it is generic - think "window manager". Because of this it is very easy to argue that Microsoft should not have been allowed to trademark such a generic term.
- troymc 14y agoI think TM is what you put prior to the mark being approved as a registered trademark by the USPTO. (It's analogous to "US Patent Pending" but for trademarks.) So eventually there will be two (R) on that logo. Maybe Microsoft could make the whole logo out of (R) symbols. Then the ones inserted by the lawyers will fit in.
- pwaring 14y agoTM doesn't mean anything - a trademark is either registered (and therefore enforceable) or it isn't. You can slap it on pretty much anything you want, it doesn't mean that whatever it is attached to will become a registered trademark, or even that the owner has filed for registration.
- DanBC 14y agoWhy do people use it then? Specifically, why is it used in the original image? They must think it does something? Or are people just following procedures?
- iand 14y agoThey are claiming ownership over the mark, but haven't registered it. It has less legal force but still counts for a trademark infringement.
- pwaring 14y agoIt suggests that the company has some rights to the brand and might act as a deterrent to others using the brand without permission (especially as most people probably don't understand the difference between registered and unregistered marks).
- OriginalSyn 14y agoI can't speak for the USA or anywhere else but in Canada TM means something. Common law trademarks do come with some rights to protect your brand, Registered trademarks come with more. It's been a long time since my IP Law class but I beleive TM allows protection against business in the same industry from using your trademark in such a way that it could be reasonably confused for yours.
- wilfra 14y ago'completely ruined' is a bit over the top, but ya, agree with your main point.
- zheng 14y agoIt might just be me, but the (R) is practically invisible when looking at the logo on the whole. The TM is much more obnoxious, but I can see why they might be hesitant to use four rectangles askew without it.