4 ms·

If people keep declining invitations, I take the hint. Otherwise I feel like I'm pestering them. From my perspective, Anna is indistinguishable from someone who

by nicbou 1y ago

If people keep declining invitations, I take the hint. Otherwise I feel like I'm pestering them. From my perspective, Anna is indistinguishable from someone who doesn't like me/the group/our plans that much. Organizers also put themselves out there when they suggest and idea and invite people. Being repeatedly shot down feels bad too. The core of my friend circles is the people who keep showing up. They're receptive to each other's plans and proactive about making them happen. When they show up, they bring the homemade dips. You can't get anything off the ground with a group of Annas.

ttoinou 1y ago
Maybe the difference is at least Anna is taking time to answer politely ? Nowadays, people just ignore / ghost you and don’t even take the time to answer
globular-toast 1y ago
One of the most difficult things in relationships is when each person thinks they are "doing the right thing" for the other, but it comes across as completely the opposite. It reminds me of a relationship I had once which didn't work out for many reasons, but one thing in particular stood out: how we each expected to ask and receive help. She would expect me to see that she needed help and just jump in. When no help was forthcoming she would just get more and more frustrated and annoyed that I wasn't helping. She treated me how she wanted to be treated: if she thought I needed help she'd just jump in and try to help. But I was also treating her how I wanted to be treated. I don't like it when people just jump in and help. I want to figure things out for myself and if I want help I'll ask for it. So by each treating each other how we wanted to be treated we just annoyed each other constantly. It turns out the "golden rule" doesn't actually work; you can't just assume people are the same as you. The invitation thing is similar. Some people will take "no" as a rejection. They know that if they say no then it means no, so they assume the same for others. But sometimes no really means "not this time, but please ask again". I have heard some people being really explicit when saying "no", like "sorry, I can't make it this time but I really want to join you so please invite me next time".
- nicbou 1y ago
  One thing I had to learn is that clear is kind and unclear is unkind. If your unstated expectations are unmet, it's on you. I used to be like the "she" in your story, and I realised this behaviour is manipulative and rarely gets me what I want. > Some people will take "no" as a rejection. People say "no" because they mean "no", and people accept "no" as meaning "no". This is how adults communicate. I don't think you can both-sides this situation.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - 1718627440 1y ago
    But is it "No, I can't come." or "No, I don't like these things."
    - the_snooze 1y ago
      If you're the one declining the invite, the onus is on you to clarify which it is, not for the initiator to guess your intentions. In my life, I usually decline with "That doesn't work for me, but how about ${ALTERNATIVE_PLAN}?" It signals that the invitation is welcome, but doesn't work for practical reasons, so I'll return the kindness by proposing something else and leaving the other person in a clear and actionable position. As the parent comment said, clarity is kindness. If you're leaving people guessing, then you're being very unkind.
      - 1718627440 1y ago
        Or maybe you intentionally didn't wanted the other to guess, but accept that you don't want to clarify.
bonoboTP 1y ago
It also depends on whether she does regularly say yes to some low-energy things (chill coffee afternoon) and only no to high-energy things (loud parties with many strangers). And the ratio between those. If we go to some events together every week or more often, but she doesn't like going to the club, which we typically do monthly, it can make sense to still ask her if she wants to come to the club even if I know she will likely decline, because who knows. If it's constantly "no", to anything, including a chill tea evening with 3 people or movie theater or walk in the park or museum etc., then I'd conclude she doesn't like the group/me and the invites are probably annoying.
- nicbou 1y ago
  Totally. It's fair to keep people's preferences in mind. I have friends to party and friends to do sports. Someone who never makes time is not really a friend, or at least not someone I'd keep inviting.
walterbell 1y ago
> If people keep declining invitations.. indistinguishable from someone who doesn't like me/the group/our plans that much Per the second sentence of the article, declines were limited in scope to party invites, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45348495#45355972 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45348495#45355972 We ended up hanging out quite a bit during those early months.
- the_snooze 1y ago
  I think the fact that so many people (myself included) interpreted it as Anna declining everything demonstrates that the article is poorly written. Even a quick signpost mid-piece like "parties obviously weren't Anna's scene, but she was a regular at our dinner table" would have made things much clearer. There's a big difference between inviting a regular to something they may or may not like, and inviting someone who's absent for everything.
  - walterbell 1y ago
    Agreed. If you're on Twitter, there's a thread, https://x.com/sharifshameem/status/1970238923621404690 https://x.com/sharifshameem/status/1970238923621404690

by nicbou 1y ago

ttoinou 1y ago

Maybe the difference is at least Anna is taking time to answer politely ? Nowadays, people just ignore / ghost you and don’t even take the time to answer

globular-toast 1y ago

One of the most difficult things in relationships is when each person thinks they are "doing the right thing" for the other, but it comes across as completely the opposite. It reminds me of a relationship I had once which didn't work out for many reasons, but one thing in particular stood out: how we each expected to ask and receive help. She would expect me to see that she needed help and just jump in. When no help was forthcoming she would just get more and more frustrated and annoyed that I wasn't helping. She treated me how she wanted to be treated: if she thought I needed help she'd just jump in and try to help. But I was also treating her how I wanted to be treated. I don't like it when people just jump in and help. I want to figure things out for myself and if I want help I'll ask for it. So by each treating each other how we wanted to be treated we just annoyed each other constantly. It turns out the "golden rule" doesn't actually work; you can't just assume people are the same as you. The invitation thing is similar. Some people will take "no" as a rejection. They know that if they say no then it means no, so they assume the same for others. But sometimes no really means "not this time, but please ask again". I have heard some people being really explicit when saying "no", like "sorry, I can't make it this time but I really want to join you so please invite me next time".

nicbou 1y ago
One thing I had to learn is that clear is kind and unclear is unkind. If your unstated expectations are unmet, it's on you. I used to be like the "she" in your story, and I realised this behaviour is manipulative and rarely gets me what I want. > Some people will take "no" as a rejection. People say "no" because they mean "no", and people accept "no" as meaning "no". This is how adults communicate. I don't think you can both-sides this situation.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- 1718627440 1y ago
  But is it "No, I can't come." or "No, I don't like these things."
  - the_snooze 1y ago
    If you're the one declining the invite, the onus is on you to clarify which it is, not for the initiator to guess your intentions. In my life, I usually decline with "That doesn't work for me, but how about ${ALTERNATIVE_PLAN}?" It signals that the invitation is welcome, but doesn't work for practical reasons, so I'll return the kindness by proposing something else and leaving the other person in a clear and actionable position. As the parent comment said, clarity is kindness. If you're leaving people guessing, then you're being very unkind.
    - 1718627440 1y ago
      Or maybe you intentionally didn't wanted the other to guess, but accept that you don't want to clarify.

bonoboTP 1y ago

It also depends on whether she does regularly say yes to some low-energy things (chill coffee afternoon) and only no to high-energy things (loud parties with many strangers). And the ratio between those. If we go to some events together every week or more often, but she doesn't like going to the club, which we typically do monthly, it can make sense to still ask her if she wants to come to the club even if I know she will likely decline, because who knows. If it's constantly "no", to anything, including a chill tea evening with 3 people or movie theater or walk in the park or museum etc., then I'd conclude she doesn't like the group/me and the invites are probably annoying.

nicbou 1y ago
Totally. It's fair to keep people's preferences in mind. I have friends to party and friends to do sports. Someone who never makes time is not really a friend, or at least not someone I'd keep inviting.

walterbell 1y ago

> If people keep declining invitations.. indistinguishable from someone who doesn't like me/the group/our plans that much Per the second sentence of the article, declines were limited in scope to party invites, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45348495#45355972 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45348495#45355972 We ended up hanging out quite a bit during those early months.

the_snooze 1y ago
I think the fact that so many people (myself included) interpreted it as Anna declining everything demonstrates that the article is poorly written. Even a quick signpost mid-piece like "parties obviously weren't Anna's scene, but she was a regular at our dinner table" would have made things much clearer. There's a big difference between inviting a regular to something they may or may not like, and inviting someone who's absent for everything.
- walterbell 1y ago
  Agreed. If you're on Twitter, there's a thread, https://x.com/sharifshameem/status/1970238923621404690 https://x.com/sharifshameem/status/1970238923621404690