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prof_hobart 14y ago
But aren't these exactly the sorts of new features that you're complaining companies are putting into their products rather than perfecting their core capabilities (i.e. making phone calls and sending SMS)?
- tomflack 14y ago
  You're putting words in my mouth. Nowhere did I draw a line in the sand - you're attempting to do that for me. And I'm a little unclear why you feel like playing "gotcha" with me here anyway...
  - prof_hobart 14y ago
    The way I read it, you did seem to draw a line in the sand - that people should have stopped implementing new features a few years back. My point isn't an attempt at a gotcha - it's a comment that if this is how you really feel, then the only way that companies are going to take any notice is by putting your money where your mouth is and buying the more robust and optimised versions of those things that do the basics well rather than buying the models with the advanced features. And it's not an attack on you specifically - it's something I see time and time again. My parents complain that the new TV they've bought, which is internet-ready, has apps etc, is too compicated for them to use. Meanwhile the old TV that did nothing more than show TV programs got thrown out a couple of years ago, despite still working fine, because they wanted the new model. They complain that the new version of Office that they use is too complex, but they've still got the Word 95 discs sat around somewhere (and they've rarely got any need to share documents with anyone else). And they are far from an isolated example. Some people want the shiny new stuff - I know I do - but I accept that if I'm going to be on the bleeding edge of tech, I'm probably going to have bits of it that simply don't work properly. And as long as both you and I are out buying these things, rather than the boring but stable stuff, then this is what the market is going to build for.
    - tomflack 14y ago
      Don't get hung up on "years". I didn't mean that I wish all feature advance had stopped years ago, I meant that for several years now I have been thinking about perfecting one thing before moving on to the next. Every company is different, every product is different, every user is different. Attempting to speak in absolutes like you are simply doesn't work. As for your suggestion I forgoe a decade of advance in phones... uhh no. A moderately buggy phone from 2012 is still a thousand times better than your puritan "calls and texts only" ideal phone. The thing is, it could be much better with a little attention to detail.
      - prof_hobart 14y ago
        I spoke in absolutes because I was replying to the absolute of "I've been thinking for some years now, I wish everyone would stop implementing features and perfect the ones that are already there.". If that's not what you meant, and instead you were trying to say "I've been thinking for some years now, that a little bit more time was spent on fixing existing features rather than always focusing on new features", then I'd probably agree. Although I would say that most companies are, in reality, already doing this and their doing it to the level that they believe the market is really prepared to pay for. > A moderately buggy phone from 2012 is still a thousand times better than your puritan "calls and texts only" ideal phone. Indeed it is - but that is far from the message you seemed to be saying in your first comment.
        tomflack 14y ago
        Your insistence on saying this goes one way or the other without being able to imagine a million shades of grey means this conversation is going nowhere.
        prof_hobart 14y ago
        Hmm. Despite me pointing out that I was simply replying to your black and white statement ("I wish everyone would stop implementing features and perfect the ones that are already there"), and pointing out that I would agree with a far more nuanced position, you're continuing to pretend that that I'm the one who was trying to make it black and white. I'm guessing from this that you're not actually massively interested in having an adult discussion on the fact that despite continual complaints from consumers about too much complexity, not enough focus on quality etc, the actual purchasing behaviour of those same consumers is driving companies to focus far more on new features than on perfecting their existing ones.

But aren't these exactly the sorts of new features that you're complaining companies are putting into their products rather than perfecting their core capabilities (i.e. making phone calls and sending SMS)?

tomflack 14y ago
You're putting words in my mouth. Nowhere did I draw a line in the sand - you're attempting to do that for me. And I'm a little unclear why you feel like playing "gotcha" with me here anyway...
- prof_hobart 14y ago
  The way I read it, you did seem to draw a line in the sand - that people should have stopped implementing new features a few years back. My point isn't an attempt at a gotcha - it's a comment that if this is how you really feel, then the only way that companies are going to take any notice is by putting your money where your mouth is and buying the more robust and optimised versions of those things that do the basics well rather than buying the models with the advanced features. And it's not an attack on you specifically - it's something I see time and time again. My parents complain that the new TV they've bought, which is internet-ready, has apps etc, is too compicated for them to use. Meanwhile the old TV that did nothing more than show TV programs got thrown out a couple of years ago, despite still working fine, because they wanted the new model. They complain that the new version of Office that they use is too complex, but they've still got the Word 95 discs sat around somewhere (and they've rarely got any need to share documents with anyone else). And they are far from an isolated example. Some people want the shiny new stuff - I know I do - but I accept that if I'm going to be on the bleeding edge of tech, I'm probably going to have bits of it that simply don't work properly. And as long as both you and I are out buying these things, rather than the boring but stable stuff, then this is what the market is going to build for.
  - tomflack 14y ago
    Don't get hung up on "years". I didn't mean that I wish all feature advance had stopped years ago, I meant that for several years now I have been thinking about perfecting one thing before moving on to the next. Every company is different, every product is different, every user is different. Attempting to speak in absolutes like you are simply doesn't work. As for your suggestion I forgoe a decade of advance in phones... uhh no. A moderately buggy phone from 2012 is still a thousand times better than your puritan "calls and texts only" ideal phone. The thing is, it could be much better with a little attention to detail.
    - prof_hobart 14y ago
      I spoke in absolutes because I was replying to the absolute of "I've been thinking for some years now, I wish everyone would stop implementing features and perfect the ones that are already there.". If that's not what you meant, and instead you were trying to say "I've been thinking for some years now, that a little bit more time was spent on fixing existing features rather than always focusing on new features", then I'd probably agree. Although I would say that most companies are, in reality, already doing this and their doing it to the level that they believe the market is really prepared to pay for. > A moderately buggy phone from 2012 is still a thousand times better than your puritan "calls and texts only" ideal phone. Indeed it is - but that is far from the message you seemed to be saying in your first comment.
      - tomflack 14y ago
        Your insistence on saying this goes one way or the other without being able to imagine a million shades of grey means this conversation is going nowhere.
        prof_hobart 14y ago
        Hmm. Despite me pointing out that I was simply replying to your black and white statement ("I wish everyone would stop implementing features and perfect the ones that are already there"), and pointing out that I would agree with a far more nuanced position, you're continuing to pretend that that I'm the one who was trying to make it black and white. I'm guessing from this that you're not actually massively interested in having an adult discussion on the fact that despite continual complaints from consumers about too much complexity, not enough focus on quality etc, the actual purchasing behaviour of those same consumers is driving companies to focus far more on new features than on perfecting their existing ones.