5 ms·

> Its not really fair that crazy people are allowed to say crazy things then we, normal people, have to take the high ground and walk away. What if I don't want

> Its not really fair that crazy people are allowed to say crazy things then we, normal people, have to take the high ground and walk away. What if I don't want to walk away? Why do I have to leave a project like it's the plague because you said something insane? This takes as axiomatic that people with incompatible beliefs in one area cannot work together in a different area.

array_key_first 1y ago
They can, but it really depends on the belief. Even for you or the most principled person, there is a limit. And, even if you can, it doesn't mean it's pleasant. Its one thing if someone is horrible in silent. From experience, horrible people seem to be the most confident and outspoken. Maybe there's a common character flaw that underpins both behaviors.
mplewis 1y ago
Yeah, so let's look at what's going on here. DHH is working to promote the work of notorious white supremacists including Tommy Robinson.
toomanyrichies 1y ago
> This takes as axiomatic that people with incompatible beliefs in one area cannot work together in a different area. "Beliefs" are when you think The Strokes are superior to The White Stripes, or that Giordano's deep dish pizza is superior to Lou Malnati's, or that IPAs are better than lagers. I'll happily work with people who espouse those beliefs, despite my beliefs to the contrary. I won't work with people who describe a Tommy Robinson march as "heartwarming", or who use terms like "demographic nightmare" [1] to describe immigration, or who amplify repeatedly-debunked [2] claims of "Pakistani rape gangs", all of which DHH did. That's bigotry, not beliefs. British culture isn't being eroded by immigration. It's being shaped by it, just like it has been for thousands of years. Where do you think your culture came from- thin air?!? - Romans gave Britain roads, baths, and Christianity. - Anglo-Saxons gave Britain Old English. - Vikings gave Britain laws and half its place names. - Normans made French the language of power and fused it with English. - The Crusades brought new foods, science, and art. And so on and so on. It's the height of ignorance to look at that incredibly diverse history, and then say "OK, but right now is the moment in time where we 'lock in' our culture for the rest of time." Culture has never stood still, and no one, not even DHH, gets to freeze it in place. Well, they can try, but they'll be pissing in the wind, just like the Tommy Robinson marchers were. I'll just leave this here: the folks in this Instagram reel [3], wearing the St. George's Cross flag and clearly on their way to the march, decided to stop and get a curry first. With the caption "When you're on your way to the racist march but the immigrant food is popping." 1. https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 2. https://tekin.co.uk/2025/09/the-ruby-community-has-a-dhh-problem https://tekin.co.uk/2025/09/the-ruby-community-has-a-dhh-pro... 3. https://www.instagram.com/reel/DOlJ_JAiKTG/ https://www.instagram.com/reel/DOlJ_JAiKTG/
- rsynnott 1y ago
  > ‘Bloody Beaker folk. Coming over here, rowing up the Tagus Estuary from the Iberian Peninsula in improvised rafts. Coming here with their drinking vessels. What's wrong with just cupping up the water in your hands and licking it up like a cat?’
- queenkjuul 1y ago
  Basically any pizza is better than Lou's though :)
  - toomanyrichies 1y ago
    Be very careful about your next few words. ;-)
- tremon 1y ago
  repeatedly-debunked claims of "Pakistani rape gangs" What exactly has been "debunked" about these claims? I realise this is veering off-topic, but the very real facts at the heart of these claims need to be heard. Denying that these things happened only serves to further the abuse the victims have already suffered. Even the BBC does not deny the existence of these rape gangs nor their heritage: > It showed how the gang, comprising men of mostly Pakistani and Afghan heritage, plied girls as young as 13 with alcohol and drugs and passed them around for sex. [1] There is more than 10 years of recorded evidence of these activities, over 250 probable victims, over 90 identified perpetrators, plus a litany of investigation reports detailing the failure of authorities to even properly investigate many of the cases. > In 2007, Ms Rowbotham and her team had alerted GMP and Rochdale Council about a gang of men of Pakistani and Afghan heritage engaged in child sexual exploitation (CSE) while Ms Oliver resigned from GMP in 2012 to publicly reveal the extent of the police failings. [2] A senior police officer had to go public to make her own superiours start caring about these crimes. From her wikpedia page: > When Oliver got upset about the handling of the case, she claims one of her seniors told her, "Maggie, calm down. Listen: What would these kids ever contribute to society? They should have just been drowned at birth". Then, Oliver stormed off the job [3] Recently, the Greater Manchester Police published multiple investigations into itself. I will quote only the part from the summary that specifically calls out the GMP for deflecting blame for its own failures [4]: > 2.58. a police source was quoted in the media as saying that the Crisis Intervention Team [..] did not always communicate this to the police and social services. > 2.59. the two serious case review overview reports published in 2013 explicitly criticised the Crisis Intervention Team for not following child protection procedures and for not communicating appropriately with other agencies [however] the multi-agency CSE strategy group chaired by Chief Superintendent C16 was aware of approximately 127 potential victims who had been referred by the Crisis Intervention Team to children’s social care and that these referrals had not been acted on. This figure later grew to 260 potential victims > We find this level of misrepresentation quite disturbing. We would have liked to have put our concerns to both the author of the overview reports and the chair of the serious case review panel. These individuals provided a joint written statement that did not directly address these concerns and they declined to be interviewed by the review team. > 2.60. our review has found compelling evidence to support the view that the Crisis Intervention Team was sharing explicit information with the authorities on the exploitation of multiple children. We also have evidence that, despite these explicit concerns, GMP and Rochdale Council failed to take appropriate action. > 2.61. it has been a gross misrepresentation to suggest that the Crisis Intervention Team in some way was complicit with this failure and to tarnish the reputation of this small group of professionals [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-66416549 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-66416549 [2] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-67967919 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-67967919 [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Oliver https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Oliver [4] https://www.greatermanchester-ca.gov.uk/media/9148/operation-span-report-january-2024-v3.pdf https://www.greatermanchester-ca.gov.uk/media/9148/operation...
jmcgough 1y ago
I really like that my job has me working with lots of different people from lots of walks of life, and we are too busy saving lives to think too much about politics. However, if I found out that one of the physicians I work with doesn't think I should have a job, doesn't think I should have equal rights, and doesn't think I belong in public spaces, then politics would become unavoidable. I'm not going to work for a bigot who sees me as a second class citizen. Likewise there are a number of long-term Ruby OS contributors who belong to minority groups DHH has been attacking. Would you attend Railsconf if DHH called your ethnicity gangs of rapists, like he recently has?
- Niten 1y ago
  This is dangerously unhinged hyperbole. What comment by DHH says that you, personally, don't "belong in public spaces"? Be specific.
  - fragmede 1y ago
    I am American, and haven't used Ruby since two jobs ago, so don't have a dog in this fight. Still, going off of https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 which is supposedly DHH's own words on his personal blog, you get, repeatedly in full so I can't be accused of taking it out of context: > As soon as I was old enough to travel on my own, London was where I wanted to go. Compared to Copenhagen at the time, there was something so majestic about Big Ben, Trafalgar Square, and even the Tube around the turn of the millenium. Not just because their capital is twice as old as ours, but because it endured twice as much, through the Blitz and the rest of it, yet never lost its nerve. I thought I might move there one day. > That was then. Now, I wouldn't dream of it. London is no longer the city I was infatuated with in the late '90s and early 2000s. Chiefly because it's no longer full of native Brits. and that last sentence links to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_London https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_London showing that, well, they're aren't as many white people in London as there used to be. Now, I don't want to put words in his mouth, but it's pretty easy to interpret that as non-white people shouldn't be seen in London. That's not exactly "you, personally, don't belong in public spaces?", but it's seems fairly close to me, to anyone that isn't white. I am open to hearing alternate interpretations of what I quoted from DHH's personal blog though.

array_key_first 1y ago

They can, but it really depends on the belief. Even for you or the most principled person, there is a limit. And, even if you can, it doesn't mean it's pleasant. Its one thing if someone is horrible in silent. From experience, horrible people seem to be the most confident and outspoken. Maybe there's a common character flaw that underpins both behaviors.

mplewis 1y ago

Yeah, so let's look at what's going on here. DHH is working to promote the work of notorious white supremacists including Tommy Robinson.

toomanyrichies 1y ago

> This takes as axiomatic that people with incompatible beliefs in one area cannot work together in a different area. "Beliefs" are when you think The Strokes are superior to The White Stripes, or that Giordano's deep dish pizza is superior to Lou Malnati's, or that IPAs are better than lagers. I'll happily work with people who espouse those beliefs, despite my beliefs to the contrary. I won't work with people who describe a Tommy Robinson march as "heartwarming", or who use terms like "demographic nightmare" [1] to describe immigration, or who amplify repeatedly-debunked [2] claims of "Pakistani rape gangs", all of which DHH did. That's bigotry, not beliefs. British culture isn't being eroded by immigration. It's being shaped by it, just like it has been for thousands of years. Where do you think your culture came from- thin air?!? - Romans gave Britain roads, baths, and Christianity. - Anglo-Saxons gave Britain Old English. - Vikings gave Britain laws and half its place names. - Normans made French the language of power and fused it with English. - The Crusades brought new foods, science, and art. And so on and so on. It's the height of ignorance to look at that incredibly diverse history, and then say "OK, but right now is the moment in time where we 'lock in' our culture for the rest of time." Culture has never stood still, and no one, not even DHH, gets to freeze it in place. Well, they can try, but they'll be pissing in the wind, just like the Tommy Robinson marchers were. I'll just leave this here: the folks in this Instagram reel [3], wearing the St. George's Cross flag and clearly on their way to the march, decided to stop and get a curry first. With the caption "When you're on your way to the racist march but the immigrant food is popping." 1. https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 2. https://tekin.co.uk/2025/09/the-ruby-community-has-a-dhh-problem https://tekin.co.uk/2025/09/the-ruby-community-has-a-dhh-pro... 3. https://www.instagram.com/reel/DOlJ_JAiKTG/ https://www.instagram.com/reel/DOlJ_JAiKTG/

rsynnott 1y ago
> ‘Bloody Beaker folk. Coming over here, rowing up the Tagus Estuary from the Iberian Peninsula in improvised rafts. Coming here with their drinking vessels. What's wrong with just cupping up the water in your hands and licking it up like a cat?’
queenkjuul 1y ago
Basically any pizza is better than Lou's though :)
- toomanyrichies 1y ago
  Be very careful about your next few words. ;-)
tremon 1y ago
repeatedly-debunked claims of "Pakistani rape gangs" What exactly has been "debunked" about these claims? I realise this is veering off-topic, but the very real facts at the heart of these claims need to be heard. Denying that these things happened only serves to further the abuse the victims have already suffered. Even the BBC does not deny the existence of these rape gangs nor their heritage: > It showed how the gang, comprising men of mostly Pakistani and Afghan heritage, plied girls as young as 13 with alcohol and drugs and passed them around for sex. [1] There is more than 10 years of recorded evidence of these activities, over 250 probable victims, over 90 identified perpetrators, plus a litany of investigation reports detailing the failure of authorities to even properly investigate many of the cases. > In 2007, Ms Rowbotham and her team had alerted GMP and Rochdale Council about a gang of men of Pakistani and Afghan heritage engaged in child sexual exploitation (CSE) while Ms Oliver resigned from GMP in 2012 to publicly reveal the extent of the police failings. [2] A senior police officer had to go public to make her own superiours start caring about these crimes. From her wikpedia page: > When Oliver got upset about the handling of the case, she claims one of her seniors told her, "Maggie, calm down. Listen: What would these kids ever contribute to society? They should have just been drowned at birth". Then, Oliver stormed off the job [3] Recently, the Greater Manchester Police published multiple investigations into itself. I will quote only the part from the summary that specifically calls out the GMP for deflecting blame for its own failures [4]: > 2.58. a police source was quoted in the media as saying that the Crisis Intervention Team [..] did not always communicate this to the police and social services. > 2.59. the two serious case review overview reports published in 2013 explicitly criticised the Crisis Intervention Team for not following child protection procedures and for not communicating appropriately with other agencies [however] the multi-agency CSE strategy group chaired by Chief Superintendent C16 was aware of approximately 127 potential victims who had been referred by the Crisis Intervention Team to children’s social care and that these referrals had not been acted on. This figure later grew to 260 potential victims > We find this level of misrepresentation quite disturbing. We would have liked to have put our concerns to both the author of the overview reports and the chair of the serious case review panel. These individuals provided a joint written statement that did not directly address these concerns and they declined to be interviewed by the review team. > 2.60. our review has found compelling evidence to support the view that the Crisis Intervention Team was sharing explicit information with the authorities on the exploitation of multiple children. We also have evidence that, despite these explicit concerns, GMP and Rochdale Council failed to take appropriate action. > 2.61. it has been a gross misrepresentation to suggest that the Crisis Intervention Team in some way was complicit with this failure and to tarnish the reputation of this small group of professionals [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-66416549 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-66416549 [2] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-67967919 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-67967919 [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Oliver https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Oliver [4] https://www.greatermanchester-ca.gov.uk/media/9148/operation-span-report-january-2024-v3.pdf https://www.greatermanchester-ca.gov.uk/media/9148/operation...

jmcgough 1y ago

I really like that my job has me working with lots of different people from lots of walks of life, and we are too busy saving lives to think too much about politics. However, if I found out that one of the physicians I work with doesn't think I should have a job, doesn't think I should have equal rights, and doesn't think I belong in public spaces, then politics would become unavoidable. I'm not going to work for a bigot who sees me as a second class citizen. Likewise there are a number of long-term Ruby OS contributors who belong to minority groups DHH has been attacking. Would you attend Railsconf if DHH called your ethnicity gangs of rapists, like he recently has?

Niten 1y ago
This is dangerously unhinged hyperbole. What comment by DHH says that you, personally, don't "belong in public spaces"? Be specific.
- fragmede 1y ago
  I am American, and haven't used Ruby since two jobs ago, so don't have a dog in this fight. Still, going off of https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 which is supposedly DHH's own words on his personal blog, you get, repeatedly in full so I can't be accused of taking it out of context: > As soon as I was old enough to travel on my own, London was where I wanted to go. Compared to Copenhagen at the time, there was something so majestic about Big Ben, Trafalgar Square, and even the Tube around the turn of the millenium. Not just because their capital is twice as old as ours, but because it endured twice as much, through the Blitz and the rest of it, yet never lost its nerve. I thought I might move there one day. > That was then. Now, I wouldn't dream of it. London is no longer the city I was infatuated with in the late '90s and early 2000s. Chiefly because it's no longer full of native Brits. and that last sentence links to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_London https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_London showing that, well, they're aren't as many white people in London as there used to be. Now, I don't want to put words in his mouth, but it's pretty easy to interpret that as non-white people shouldn't be seen in London. That's not exactly "you, personally, don't belong in public spaces?", but it's seems fairly close to me, to anyone that isn't white. I am open to hearing alternate interpretations of what I quoted from DHH's personal blog though.