4 ms·

I'm probably the extreme minority on HN (0.00001%) but I pretty much never used any CLI applications. Just never really needed them. But recently at work (we us

I'm probably the extreme minority on HN (0.00001%) but I pretty much never used any CLI applications. Just never really needed them. But recently at work (we use Macs) I had some tasks which need the Terminal.app so I kinda tried to dig in and learn some stuff but whenever I feel I already know something (more or less) there is always some new stuff entering the picture next day. Shell, console, terminal... now a terminal _emulator_ :insert exploding galaxy brain meme:

JdeBP 1y ago
They are all terminal emulators. You have probably, as one who has never used the command line, never touched an actual terminal.
- fluoridation 1y ago
  A shell is not a terminal emulator. It's a program that does text I/O (perhaps with a terminal, perhaps not) and implements basic system functionality like executing programs and often scripting.
  - MangoToupe 1y ago
    Most people interact with a shell through a terminal emulator, though. The alternative is something like emacs's eshell. Or an actual "terminal" which hasn't been even available for purchase for many decades.
    - fluoridation 1y ago
      Not always. The shell may be facing a serial interface, or it could be spawned by a program and have no user interface at all.
      - MangoToupe 1y ago
        I probably wouldn't describe either as a human interacting with a shell, but nevertheless point taken.
        fluoridation 1y ago
        I wouldn't either, which I why I didn't include that interaction in the definition I gave. A shell just implements basic system functionality, it doesn't necessarily function as a UI.
sorrythanks 1y ago
"console", "terminal" and "terminal emulator" all refer to the same thing. "shell" is the read-eval-print-loop interface you use to work in the terminal.
- JdeBP 1y ago
  Please don't confuse the novices. A console is either a special kernel device or a UI subsystem; a terminal is a physical piece of kit; and a terminal emulator is an application that runs on a general purpose computer that emulates one of the aforementioned pieces of kit. * https://jdebp.uk/FGA/tui-console-and-terminal-paradigms.html https://jdebp.uk/FGA/tui-console-and-terminal-paradigms.html * https://jdebp.uk/Softwares/nosh/guide/commands/freebsd-console.xml https://jdebp.uk/Softwares/nosh/guide/commands/freebsd-conso... * https://jdebp.uk/Softwares/nosh/guide/commands/linux-console.xml https://jdebp.uk/Softwares/nosh/guide/commands/linux-console... * https://jdebp.uk/Softwares/nosh/guide/commands/linux-vt.xml https://jdebp.uk/Softwares/nosh/guide/commands/linux-vt.xml * https://blog.bruchez.name/posts/televideo-912-terminal-1/ https://blog.bruchez.name/posts/televideo-912-terminal-1/
  - kstrauser 1y ago
    Technically true, but I’ve never heard anyone say “open a terminal emulator and type…”
    - JdeBP 1y ago
      You've only been within earshot of slipshod people. (-: And you are typing below a headline that calls the thing a terminal emulator, so you cannot really say that you've never encountered one referred to as such.
    - M95D 1y ago
      Because people say "open a command prompt". That can be a terminal emulator, a kernel console on screen+keyboard, a terminal via serial port console, or a ssh connection, and usually it doesn't matter which.
skydhash 1y ago
Long story short: Terminals were the result of moving teleprinting stuff from paper to the screen. The shell is program that accept commands and execute the relevant program and I’m pretty sure console was the whole apparatus. But now we moved the whole protocol to a program (an emilator) instead, and console refers to the initial boot environment, the attached display, keyboard pair (because you can still use another computer as the interface for control). But the protocol is fairly old and some stuff clashes with current paradigms for using a computers.
lxe 1y ago
I've been using a terminal extensively for over twenty years. However, I was never able to get to the whole Vim and mouse-less keyboard only setup. If you can live your life to the fullest without using the terminal, I kind of envy you.
unsungNovelty 1y ago
Checkout clis like ranger (fm), Calcurse, bpytop/btop/htop/top, neovim, taskwarrior... They are all cool. Probably missing crores of other clis that are cool.

JdeBP 1y ago

They are all terminal emulators. You have probably, as one who has never used the command line, never touched an actual terminal.

fluoridation 1y ago
A shell is not a terminal emulator. It's a program that does text I/O (perhaps with a terminal, perhaps not) and implements basic system functionality like executing programs and often scripting.
- MangoToupe 1y ago
  Most people interact with a shell through a terminal emulator, though. The alternative is something like emacs's eshell. Or an actual "terminal" which hasn't been even available for purchase for many decades.
  - fluoridation 1y ago
    Not always. The shell may be facing a serial interface, or it could be spawned by a program and have no user interface at all.
    - MangoToupe 1y ago
      I probably wouldn't describe either as a human interacting with a shell, but nevertheless point taken.
      - fluoridation 1y ago
        I wouldn't either, which I why I didn't include that interaction in the definition I gave. A shell just implements basic system functionality, it doesn't necessarily function as a UI.

sorrythanks 1y ago

"console", "terminal" and "terminal emulator" all refer to the same thing. "shell" is the read-eval-print-loop interface you use to work in the terminal.

JdeBP 1y ago
Please don't confuse the novices. A console is either a special kernel device or a UI subsystem; a terminal is a physical piece of kit; and a terminal emulator is an application that runs on a general purpose computer that emulates one of the aforementioned pieces of kit. * https://jdebp.uk/FGA/tui-console-and-terminal-paradigms.html https://jdebp.uk/FGA/tui-console-and-terminal-paradigms.html * https://jdebp.uk/Softwares/nosh/guide/commands/freebsd-console.xml https://jdebp.uk/Softwares/nosh/guide/commands/freebsd-conso... * https://jdebp.uk/Softwares/nosh/guide/commands/linux-console.xml https://jdebp.uk/Softwares/nosh/guide/commands/linux-console... * https://jdebp.uk/Softwares/nosh/guide/commands/linux-vt.xml https://jdebp.uk/Softwares/nosh/guide/commands/linux-vt.xml * https://blog.bruchez.name/posts/televideo-912-terminal-1/ https://blog.bruchez.name/posts/televideo-912-terminal-1/
- kstrauser 1y ago
  Technically true, but I’ve never heard anyone say “open a terminal emulator and type…”
  - JdeBP 1y ago
    You've only been within earshot of slipshod people. (-: And you are typing below a headline that calls the thing a terminal emulator, so you cannot really say that you've never encountered one referred to as such.
  - M95D 1y ago
    Because people say "open a command prompt". That can be a terminal emulator, a kernel console on screen+keyboard, a terminal via serial port console, or a ssh connection, and usually it doesn't matter which.

skydhash 1y ago

Long story short: Terminals were the result of moving teleprinting stuff from paper to the screen. The shell is program that accept commands and execute the relevant program and I’m pretty sure console was the whole apparatus. But now we moved the whole protocol to a program (an emilator) instead, and console refers to the initial boot environment, the attached display, keyboard pair (because you can still use another computer as the interface for control). But the protocol is fairly old and some stuff clashes with current paradigms for using a computers.

lxe 1y ago

I've been using a terminal extensively for over twenty years. However, I was never able to get to the whole Vim and mouse-less keyboard only setup. If you can live your life to the fullest without using the terminal, I kind of envy you.

unsungNovelty 1y ago

Checkout clis like ranger (fm), Calcurse, bpytop/btop/htop/top, neovim, taskwarrior... They are all cool. Probably missing crores of other clis that are cool.