4 ms·

I don't know why everyone pretends that having an incorrect opinion is some untouchable thing and we just have to respect it. Everyone, you included, has opini

I don't know why everyone pretends that having an incorrect opinion is some untouchable thing and we just have to respect it. Everyone, you included, has opinions that they find unpalatable. Pretty much all of human history has been "cancelling" people for "incorrect opinions". I mean, what were the crusades? Or world war II? There's no, like, gun to your head saying you have to respect things you don't respect. Some things are just not respectable. You're allowed to be like "no" and then decide to get as far away from the person as possible. And, relatedly - you don't have to run away. You can push them away. Its not really fair that crazy people are allowed to say crazy things then we, normal people, have to take the high ground and walk away. What if I don't want to walk away? Why do I have to leave a project like it's the plague because you said something insane? Anyway, just my two cents. Also, just to be clear: I don't think DHH is crazy or evil. I'm addressed the broader concept, not this specific case.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
tbrownaw 1y ago
> Its not really fair that crazy people are allowed to say crazy things then we, normal people, have to take the high ground and walk away. What if I don't want to walk away? Why do I have to leave a project like it's the plague because you said something insane? This takes as axiomatic that people with incompatible beliefs in one area cannot work together in a different area.
- array_key_first 1y ago
  They can, but it really depends on the belief. Even for you or the most principled person, there is a limit. And, even if you can, it doesn't mean it's pleasant. Its one thing if someone is horrible in silent. From experience, horrible people seem to be the most confident and outspoken. Maybe there's a common character flaw that underpins both behaviors.
- mplewis 1y ago
  Yeah, so let's look at what's going on here. DHH is working to promote the work of notorious white supremacists including Tommy Robinson.
- toomanyrichies 1y ago
  > This takes as axiomatic that people with incompatible beliefs in one area cannot work together in a different area. "Beliefs" are when you think The Strokes are superior to The White Stripes, or that Giordano's deep dish pizza is superior to Lou Malnati's, or that IPAs are better than lagers. I'll happily work with people who espouse those beliefs, despite my beliefs to the contrary. I won't work with people who describe a Tommy Robinson march as "heartwarming", or who use terms like "demographic nightmare" [1] to describe immigration, or who amplify repeatedly-debunked [2] claims of "Pakistani rape gangs", all of which DHH did. That's bigotry, not beliefs. British culture isn't being eroded by immigration. It's being shaped by it, just like it has been for thousands of years. Where do you think your culture came from- thin air?!? - Romans gave Britain roads, baths, and Christianity. - Anglo-Saxons gave Britain Old English. - Vikings gave Britain laws and half its place names. - Normans made French the language of power and fused it with English. - The Crusades brought new foods, science, and art. And so on and so on. It's the height of ignorance to look at that incredibly diverse history, and then say "OK, but right now is the moment in time where we 'lock in' our culture for the rest of time." Culture has never stood still, and no one, not even DHH, gets to freeze it in place. Well, they can try, but they'll be pissing in the wind, just like the Tommy Robinson marchers were. I'll just leave this here: the folks in this Instagram reel [3], wearing the St. George's Cross flag and clearly on their way to the march, decided to stop and get a curry first. With the caption "When you're on your way to the racist march but the immigrant food is popping." 1. https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 2. https://tekin.co.uk/2025/09/the-ruby-community-has-a-dhh-problem https://tekin.co.uk/2025/09/the-ruby-community-has-a-dhh-pro... 3. https://www.instagram.com/reel/DOlJ_JAiKTG/ https://www.instagram.com/reel/DOlJ_JAiKTG/
  - rsynnott 1y ago
    > ‘Bloody Beaker folk. Coming over here, rowing up the Tagus Estuary from the Iberian Peninsula in improvised rafts. Coming here with their drinking vessels. What's wrong with just cupping up the water in your hands and licking it up like a cat?’
  - queenkjuul 1y ago
    Basically any pizza is better than Lou's though :)
- jmcgough 1y ago
  I really like that my job has me working with lots of different people from lots of walks of life, and we are too busy saving lives to think too much about politics. However, if I found out that one of the physicians I work with doesn't think I should have a job, doesn't think I should have equal rights, and doesn't think I belong in public spaces, then politics would become unavoidable. I'm not going to work for a bigot who sees me as a second class citizen. Likewise there are a number of long-term Ruby OS contributors who belong to minority groups DHH has been attacking. Would you attend Railsconf if DHH called your ethnicity gangs of rapists, like he recently has?
  - Niten 1y ago
    This is dangerously unhinged hyperbole. What comment by DHH says that you, personally, don't "belong in public spaces"? Be specific.
    - fragmede 1y ago
      I am American, and haven't used Ruby since two jobs ago, so don't have a dog in this fight. Still, going off of https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 which is supposedly DHH's own words on his personal blog, you get, repeatedly in full so I can't be accused of taking it out of context: > As soon as I was old enough to travel on my own, London was where I wanted to go. Compared to Copenhagen at the time, there was something so majestic about Big Ben, Trafalgar Square, and even the Tube around the turn of the millenium. Not just because their capital is twice as old as ours, but because it endured twice as much, through the Blitz and the rest of it, yet never lost its nerve. I thought I might move there one day. > That was then. Now, I wouldn't dream of it. London is no longer the city I was infatuated with in the late '90s and early 2000s. Chiefly because it's no longer full of native Brits. and that last sentence links to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_London https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_London showing that, well, they're aren't as many white people in London as there used to be. Now, I don't want to put words in his mouth, but it's pretty easy to interpret that as non-white people shouldn't be seen in London. That's not exactly "you, personally, don't belong in public spaces?", but it's seems fairly close to me, to anyone that isn't white. I am open to hearing alternate interpretations of what I quoted from DHH's personal blog though.
dullcrisp 1y ago
Say you find out that your dentist is into Qanon. Do you: a) Nod politely and try to change the subject? b) Tell him you think he’s nuts and you prefer not to discuss politics with him? c) Find a different dentist because this makes you uncomfortable and you’re not sure you can trust his judgement? d) Tell your friends that this dentist has some weird political views, and here’s a new dentist you found that you like? e) Start a pressure campaign to shame anyone who still goes to this dentist? Because I think everything except the last one would be a fair reaction, but I can’t ever tell which one people are talking about.
- chuckadams 1y ago
  The "pressure campaign" being one guy who decided to withdraw his contribution. Was Mike Perham obligated to publicly associate with DHH indefinitely?
  - dullcrisp 1y ago
    I can’t comment on the decisions people made in this case, I was taking up GP’s musings on who we should let have what opinions in general. I guess I would say that withdrawing funding from an organization based on who they let speak at an event seems like an overreaction given that it had these ramifications, but I don’t think it’s my place to judge what anyone chooses to contribute their own money to. None of the rest of us is contributing $250k to Ruby Central either, and we’re not entitled to have Mike solve our problems.
    - mrguyorama 1y ago
      >I guess I would say that withdrawing funding from an organization based on who they let speak at an event seems like an overreaction given that it had these ramifications Wait wait wait, now it's Mike's fault that Shopify acted the way it did and coup'd this organization? Come on. You can't judge his choice to remove funding on what someone else did.
- array_key_first 1y ago
  The phrasing here is strange - whats the difference between a pressure campaign and me telling my friends? What if I have a lot of friends? Is it now a pressure campaign? What makes something telling the truth, and what makes something a campaign? And, why do people so thoroughly fear the truth being told about them? Is that shame, or something else? If you wish privacy, as we all do often, then stay private. Its easy and free. But when your opinion is posted online and you willingly tie it to your real life identity, you cannot get canceled. No, in my mind, it's impossible. You may cancel yourself. But people simply repeating your own words back to you is not a campaign, it's just a reminder of reality and truth.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

tbrownaw 1y ago

> Its not really fair that crazy people are allowed to say crazy things then we, normal people, have to take the high ground and walk away. What if I don't want to walk away? Why do I have to leave a project like it's the plague because you said something insane? This takes as axiomatic that people with incompatible beliefs in one area cannot work together in a different area.

array_key_first 1y ago
They can, but it really depends on the belief. Even for you or the most principled person, there is a limit. And, even if you can, it doesn't mean it's pleasant. Its one thing if someone is horrible in silent. From experience, horrible people seem to be the most confident and outspoken. Maybe there's a common character flaw that underpins both behaviors.
mplewis 1y ago
Yeah, so let's look at what's going on here. DHH is working to promote the work of notorious white supremacists including Tommy Robinson.
toomanyrichies 1y ago
> This takes as axiomatic that people with incompatible beliefs in one area cannot work together in a different area. "Beliefs" are when you think The Strokes are superior to The White Stripes, or that Giordano's deep dish pizza is superior to Lou Malnati's, or that IPAs are better than lagers. I'll happily work with people who espouse those beliefs, despite my beliefs to the contrary. I won't work with people who describe a Tommy Robinson march as "heartwarming", or who use terms like "demographic nightmare" [1] to describe immigration, or who amplify repeatedly-debunked [2] claims of "Pakistani rape gangs", all of which DHH did. That's bigotry, not beliefs. British culture isn't being eroded by immigration. It's being shaped by it, just like it has been for thousands of years. Where do you think your culture came from- thin air?!? - Romans gave Britain roads, baths, and Christianity. - Anglo-Saxons gave Britain Old English. - Vikings gave Britain laws and half its place names. - Normans made French the language of power and fused it with English. - The Crusades brought new foods, science, and art. And so on and so on. It's the height of ignorance to look at that incredibly diverse history, and then say "OK, but right now is the moment in time where we 'lock in' our culture for the rest of time." Culture has never stood still, and no one, not even DHH, gets to freeze it in place. Well, they can try, but they'll be pissing in the wind, just like the Tommy Robinson marchers were. I'll just leave this here: the folks in this Instagram reel [3], wearing the St. George's Cross flag and clearly on their way to the march, decided to stop and get a curry first. With the caption "When you're on your way to the racist march but the immigrant food is popping." 1. https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 2. https://tekin.co.uk/2025/09/the-ruby-community-has-a-dhh-problem https://tekin.co.uk/2025/09/the-ruby-community-has-a-dhh-pro... 3. https://www.instagram.com/reel/DOlJ_JAiKTG/ https://www.instagram.com/reel/DOlJ_JAiKTG/
- rsynnott 1y ago
  > ‘Bloody Beaker folk. Coming over here, rowing up the Tagus Estuary from the Iberian Peninsula in improvised rafts. Coming here with their drinking vessels. What's wrong with just cupping up the water in your hands and licking it up like a cat?’
- queenkjuul 1y ago
  Basically any pizza is better than Lou's though :)
jmcgough 1y ago
I really like that my job has me working with lots of different people from lots of walks of life, and we are too busy saving lives to think too much about politics. However, if I found out that one of the physicians I work with doesn't think I should have a job, doesn't think I should have equal rights, and doesn't think I belong in public spaces, then politics would become unavoidable. I'm not going to work for a bigot who sees me as a second class citizen. Likewise there are a number of long-term Ruby OS contributors who belong to minority groups DHH has been attacking. Would you attend Railsconf if DHH called your ethnicity gangs of rapists, like he recently has?
- Niten 1y ago
  This is dangerously unhinged hyperbole. What comment by DHH says that you, personally, don't "belong in public spaces"? Be specific.
  - fragmede 1y ago
    I am American, and haven't used Ruby since two jobs ago, so don't have a dog in this fight. Still, going off of https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 which is supposedly DHH's own words on his personal blog, you get, repeatedly in full so I can't be accused of taking it out of context: > As soon as I was old enough to travel on my own, London was where I wanted to go. Compared to Copenhagen at the time, there was something so majestic about Big Ben, Trafalgar Square, and even the Tube around the turn of the millenium. Not just because their capital is twice as old as ours, but because it endured twice as much, through the Blitz and the rest of it, yet never lost its nerve. I thought I might move there one day. > That was then. Now, I wouldn't dream of it. London is no longer the city I was infatuated with in the late '90s and early 2000s. Chiefly because it's no longer full of native Brits. and that last sentence links to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_London https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_London showing that, well, they're aren't as many white people in London as there used to be. Now, I don't want to put words in his mouth, but it's pretty easy to interpret that as non-white people shouldn't be seen in London. That's not exactly "you, personally, don't belong in public spaces?", but it's seems fairly close to me, to anyone that isn't white. I am open to hearing alternate interpretations of what I quoted from DHH's personal blog though.

dullcrisp 1y ago

Say you find out that your dentist is into Qanon. Do you: a) Nod politely and try to change the subject? b) Tell him you think he’s nuts and you prefer not to discuss politics with him? c) Find a different dentist because this makes you uncomfortable and you’re not sure you can trust his judgement? d) Tell your friends that this dentist has some weird political views, and here’s a new dentist you found that you like? e) Start a pressure campaign to shame anyone who still goes to this dentist? Because I think everything except the last one would be a fair reaction, but I can’t ever tell which one people are talking about.

chuckadams 1y ago
The "pressure campaign" being one guy who decided to withdraw his contribution. Was Mike Perham obligated to publicly associate with DHH indefinitely?
- dullcrisp 1y ago
  I can’t comment on the decisions people made in this case, I was taking up GP’s musings on who we should let have what opinions in general. I guess I would say that withdrawing funding from an organization based on who they let speak at an event seems like an overreaction given that it had these ramifications, but I don’t think it’s my place to judge what anyone chooses to contribute their own money to. None of the rest of us is contributing $250k to Ruby Central either, and we’re not entitled to have Mike solve our problems.
  - mrguyorama 1y ago
    >I guess I would say that withdrawing funding from an organization based on who they let speak at an event seems like an overreaction given that it had these ramifications Wait wait wait, now it's Mike's fault that Shopify acted the way it did and coup'd this organization? Come on. You can't judge his choice to remove funding on what someone else did.
array_key_first 1y ago
The phrasing here is strange - whats the difference between a pressure campaign and me telling my friends? What if I have a lot of friends? Is it now a pressure campaign? What makes something telling the truth, and what makes something a campaign? And, why do people so thoroughly fear the truth being told about them? Is that shame, or something else? If you wish privacy, as we all do often, then stay private. Its easy and free. But when your opinion is posted online and you willingly tie it to your real life identity, you cannot get canceled. No, in my mind, it's impossible. You may cancel yourself. But people simply repeating your own words back to you is not a campaign, it's just a reminder of reality and truth.